Macophants - The new Macbook Air: you getting one?

Originally Posted by Matt

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never mentioned Macs, and not commenting on laptops. This firm is handing out NETbooks...the little 9 or 10 inch jobs.

Gotcha...

My wife had the option to take a netbook or laptop when she started her last job. She took a laptop.

Originally Posted by epb

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I'd completely forgotten about the HP Omnibook with that crazy j-mouse. The IBM 200 and X series were years after the 505G (I own one of every model of IBM subnotebook). As I wrote earlier, when the 505G arrived, IBM had the 701C and moved to the 560 (kite). Ditto the Lifebook. The Libretto 50 and 70 were, like the IBM PC110, attempts at a usable palmtop, rather than subnotebooks. Looking at the early 505 and the current MacBook Air, it seems pretty clear it's an evolution of the Sony design. I'm not saying there were no other subnotebooks, but it was the Sony models that steered everyone towards small, thin, light with optical drives. Toshiba and Fujitsu's first subnotes were rebadges of the Sonys, early on.
The Thinkpad 220 came out in 1995. The Vaio 505G came out in 1998. Thanks for playing though. Also... really: Tosh and Fujitsu rebranded Sony? No.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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The Thinkpad 220 came out in 1993. The Vaio 505G came out in 1998. Thanks for playing though.

Also... really: Tosh and Fujitsu rebranded Sony? No.

Help me out here, homeskillet - wasn't that a thick, chunky Japan-only model with mono display? Because you're talking like it's the same form-factor as the 505G, and I remember that being not much different than the 500 series we had in the US that same year. The IBM 200-series that compete with the 505s came years later, when IBM dropped the 500-series subnotebooks after the 570, iirc.

Originally Posted by epb

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Help me out here, homeskillet - wasn't that a thick, chunky Japan-only model with mono display? Because you're talking like it's the same form-factor as the 505G, and I remember that being not much different than the 500 series we had in the US that same year. The IBM 200-series that compete with the 505s came years later, when IBM dropped the 500-series subnotebooks after the 570, iirc.

Originally Posted by epb

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This laptop is hardly innovative - Sony's had ultralight laptops (not netbooks) in this niche pretty much since they released the 505G back in 1995. In fact, Apple poached a bunch of Sony people to help with design of their smaller models.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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And IBM/Lenovo, and nearly every Japanese manufacturer. (Toshiba, etc)

Originally Posted by epb

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Not really. No one came close to Sony for thin/small laptops until the last 5-6 years. When the 505G came out, IBM's subnotebook was the 701C with the folding keyboard, then the 560 which was much larger. No one, not even Sony themselves, have matched the original Picturebook for size/performance.
I'm talking about subcompact or ultraportable computers. Which was the whole point. You are saying that the 505G is the root cause of the Macbook Air. Which is dumb, since small, light. full featured (for their time) laptop computers were around long before the 505g. And I've given you several examples. Yeah, so the Thinkpad 220 was a little chunky. It was out 3 years prior to the Sony, which wasn't out until 1998, by they way. It weighed 2.9lbs. It had a smaller footprint. They got thinner. You've claimed that the 700 series was IBM's subcompact at the time the 505G came out, which is not true, nor is the 500 series the subcompact series. The 200/X series has been IBM's subcompact series since 1995 - whenever they sold the works to Lenovo. The libretto subcompacts were among the first subcompact computers to fully run Windows 95. palmtop or no. The Fujitsu subcompact tablets were around before Sony's so how were they rebadged Sony? Blah blah blah. You keep saying **** that is just blatantly false. So you like the Sony. Nice. I just added that by the time they had a subcompact, a lot of other companies had been making them for a long time. Which is STILL true. Edit: I mistakenly typed 2003 in one post. I've corrected this.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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I'm talking about subcompact or ultraportable computers. Which was the whole point.

I realized while at work today was that this is when things went awry. My point was that the new Mac Book Air is a descendant of the Sony 505G, which debuted a certain form-factor of laptop. You then argued that several other companies made subnotebooks, ignoring the form-factor element I initially referred to. So while I'm saying no one made thin, slim sub-3lbs notebooks with 11" or so displays before Sony, you continued posting examples of subnotebooks that were anything but, arguing a different point. Yes, other companies made subnotebooks - no, none were like the 505G before it debuted. Most everyone moved to emulate it afterwards.

That aside - you're wrong about IBM, possibly because of your screen name's city, indicating you're in (or were in) Japan. The 200-series was sold in Japan about a decade before IBM released one here. In the US, the 500 series was the subnotebook line, the 300 series the mid-range/student line, the 700 series the top line. The 701C was the only 700-series aligned subnotebook, likely just to justify its initial $4500 asking price. Afterwards, IBM reverted to the 500-series name when the Pentium debuted, then moved to the 200-series here with, iirc, the 240 and 240X. Then they revamped the line and started the subnotebook models with Xs (X20, X21, etc).

I may have jumbled the timeline a bit on the 505G debut - I thought I had mine sometime between owning my 701C (which I still have), which debuted in May 1995 (just before Windows 95 and the Pentium-based laptops) and my 560; it might have been after the 560, though. I didn't have one long, being unhappy with the breadth of the "Kite." My last IBM subnotebook was the X31 (hard to find), I think among the last, if not the last, pre-Lenovo models.

Originally Posted by epb

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I realized while at work today was that this is when things went awry. My point was that the new Mac Book Air is a descendant of the Sony 505G, which debuted a certain form-factor of laptop. You then argued that several other companies made subnotebooks, ignoring the form-factor element I initially referred to.
Maybe you should make a concerted effort to say what you mean, because THIS is the first time you mention "form factor" and you never at all mentioned screen size until just now. >

Originally Posted by epb

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Help me out here, homeskillet - wasn't that a thick, chunky Japan-only model with mono display? Because you're talking like it's the same form-factor as the 505G, and I remember that being not much different than the 500 series we had in the US that same year. The IBM 200-series that compete with the 505s came years later, when IBM dropped the 500-series subnotebooks after the 570, iirc.
Let me refresh your memory. AGAIN:

Originally Posted by epb

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This laptop is hardly innovative - Sony's had ultralight laptops (not netbooks) in this niche pretty much since they released the 505G back in 1995. In fact, Apple poached a bunch of Sony people to help with design of their smaller models.
And my followup statement is directly coupled to this statement, and is true, and factual. IBM did have a small form factor ultralight laptop, not a netbook before that. As did many manufacturers. You are the one who decided to argue (stupidly) with me based on some criteria you never said. You are sitting here trying to tell me that Sony invented the ultralight laptop, small form factor laptop, which is simply not true.

So, back to the original topic. For full and frank disclosure, I already own an iPad and a 15" MBP. I fool around on the iPad when commuting and for a bit before bed, and use my MBP for work. I also have a desktop for gaming, but that's another story.

Unfortunately where I work the powers that be are not yet forward thinking enough to get laptops for everyone, yet I am out of the office quite frequently at meetings and other timewasting events where I still need to do a fair bit of work. I originally chose the 15" model over the 13" model because of the screen real estate (which I like), but have grown to detest lugging it about. From time to time I've also tried using my MBP while in bed, but its a bit too unwieldy and clunky.

Which makes me seriously consider a 13" MBA. The processor suits me just fine - all I do is word processing anyway - and I see that the bumped the resolution to match the resolution on the 15" MBPs. The MBAs haven't landed where I am just yet, but the moment they show up in stores I'm going to check them out to see if I can live with the dot pitch and if I can, I'm picking up one on the spot. With 4GB RAM of course.

Engadget has a review up and they give it mostly glowing marks. A few things that would keep me away, even if I were interested in a Mac product: USB 2 only, no backlit keyboard (the old Air model had them), and a stupid mini headphone jack.

Originally Posted by Rambo

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and a stupid mini headphone jack.
It looks like a normal 1/8" to me, but if it's not then that's a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by Kookz

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It looks like a normal 1/8" to me, but if it's not then that's a deal breaker.
According to the spec page its a mini: \t\t\t\t\t\tAudio \t\t\t\t\t\t

• Stereo speakers
• Omnidirectional microphone
• Headphone mini-jack
• Support for Apple Earphones with Remote and Mic

Also, no ethernet port.

Originally Posted by Rambo

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According to the spec page its a mini:

\t\t\t\t\t\tAudio

\t\t\t\t\t\t

• Stereo speakers
  
• Omnidirectional microphone
  
• Headphone mini-jack
  
• Support for Apple Earphones with Remote and Mic

Also, no ethernet port.

Mini-jack is what is generally considered the typical headphone jack. The other is a 1/4" jack (the big one you find on receivers and dedicated headphone amps. The MBA has a normal headphone jack. They're not that thin yet.

Originally Posted by ramuman

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Mini-jack is what is generally considered the typical headphone jack. The other is a 1/4" jack (the big one you find on receivers and dedicated headphone amps. The MBA has a normal headphone jack. They're not that thin yet.
Huh. Never seen them referred to as minijacks before. Good catch.

Just ordered the 11.6", 4GB RAM, 64 GB. I think it will compliment my iMac and serve me well in classes etc. Cant wait!

Whats up your ass?

Originally Posted by NorCal

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In other words you're an annoying ****.
Sent from my MacBook

Originally Posted by NorCal

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Actually the whole thing that bothers me is the "good enough" line. why not better? Why does my Mac Book only have two slots? And while we're at it why can't anyone that works at a Mac store EVER admit that there is a problem with ANY Apple product. More than anything it's this that drives me nuts.

Its electronics, of course it will be problems with it. But if you look at general numbers, Macs tend to last quite good. But we have a big servicecenter at our store, and of course Apple produkts break down sometimes.