WW Chan's Neopolitan shoulder construction - pictures

George · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by gdl203

I think I see what you mean... So that it replicates the appearance of the armhole seam ?
A lapped seam is like on a pair of jeans. Here:

The seam around the armhole on you coat looks lapped. The blue Donegal look very nice by the way.

maomao1980 · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by George

The seam around the armhole on you coat looks lapped.

The blue Donegal look very nice by the way.

they are folded-in, not really a lapped seam per se.

gdl203 · Oct 19, 2010

Gotcha, thanks. I understand the function of the lapped seam at the armhole (that's what gives it a natural, round look rahter than the pop of an open pressed seam, right?). Is there any function to the lapped shoulder seam or is it just so it's aesthetically consistent with the armhole seam?

TheFoo · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by gdl203

Gotcha, thanks. I understand the function of the lapped seam at the armhole (that's what gives it a natural, round look rahter than the pop of an open pressed seam, right?). Is there any function to the lapped shoulder seam or is it just so it's aesthetically consistent with the armhole seam?

I don't think there's a function. If you're a cynic, you could argue it's just an ostentatious way to show-off needless hand-sewing. Raphael calls it "the look of the village" and the obsession of the "ignoramus." To a very small degree, I think he has a point. From my understanding the stitching typically used to close the lapped seam does not allow any flexibility in tension, which can cause the jacket shoulder to rumple when you move around. My Rubinacci jacket shoulders do this.

On the other hand, I do think the lapped seam makes aesthetic and conceptual sense with the shirt-set sleeve and will continue to have my jackets made that way.

TRINI · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I don't think there's a function. If you're a cynic, you could argue it's just an ostentatious way to show-off needless hand-sewing. Raphael calls it "the look of the village" and the obsession of the "ignoramus." To a very small degree, I think he has a point. From my understanding the stitching typically used to close the lapped seam does not allow any flexibility in tension, which can cause the jacket shoulder to rumple when you move around. My Rubinacci jacket shoulders do this.

On the other hand, I do think the lapped seam makes aesthetic and conceptual sense with the shirt-set sleeve and will continue to have my jackets made that way.

Just post a picture already. Preferably with red lines.

gdl203 · Oct 19, 2010

I believe this is what we're talking about

Â

Manton

TRINI · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by gdl203

I believe this is what we're talking about

Manton

I've seen that one before but I find real life pics help.

If I understand lapped seams correctly, it would look like those Levi's seams and therefore would have a visible row of stitching at the shoulder.

George · Oct 19, 2010

The term lapped joint is used in sheetmetal and fabication. Here:

I suspect on clothing that the material is turned over on itself (hemmed) to remove the raw edge then lapped. It maybe different in a tailoring context though

TheFoo · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by gdl203

I believe this is what we're talking about

Â

Manton

Yes, that is a lapped seam with respect to the armscye, which creates the spalla camicia. Now, just imagine the same seam along the shoulder leading away from the armscye. In fact, "Neapolitan" jackets seem to use lapped seams everywhere. Even the front darts are lapped.

amplifiedheat · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by OttoSkadelig

if you have a good build, the NS allows your build to naturally shine and without getting obscured under layers of padding.
This is a common misconception about natural vs. padded shoulders. The variable is not muscularity, but slope. There are thin, bony people with square shoulders, just as there are very muscular people with sloping shoulders. (Think big, bulky trapezius.) Likewise, shoulder extension should be based not on build, but on apparent head size.

OttoSkadelig · Oct 19, 2010

Originally Posted by amplifiedheat

This is a common misconception about natural vs. padded shoulders. The variable is not muscularity, but slope. There are thin, bony people with square shoulders, just as there are very muscular people with sloping shoulders. (Think big, bulky trapezius.)

oh dear. another of your "a common misconception / fallacy etc" posts. thank you for the elucidation

you speak from personal experience? i actually happen to have muscular shoulders and know what i'm talking about. do you? do you even own a suit with a neapolitan shoulder? or is this more empty theory, not backed by real experience?

since the neapolitan shoulder happens to work exceptionally well on me, and as i have bulky shoulders, kindly solve for the unknown variable and inform me on how my shoulders slope, and we'll see if you reverse-engineered the right answer. i promise to be truthful.

a = b + c. you know a and b, solve for c.

Rambo · Oct 20, 2010

Originally Posted by TRINI

I've seen that one before but I find real life pics help. If I understand lapped seams correctly, it would look like those Levi's seams and therefore would have a visible row of stitching at the shoulder.
+1. I'm completely lost in how this would be aesthetically pleasing on anything but the shoulder.

amplifiedheat · Oct 20, 2010

Originally Posted by OttoSkadelig

since the neapolitan shoulder happens to work exceptionally well on me, and as i have bulky shoulders

You're not listening. You have bulky, square shoulders. Someone with sloped shoulders, no matter how built-up, will look sloped without padding. For instance, imagine a natural shoulder on this guy:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/1...n?size=620x400

As to the other question, I have had natural-shoulder jackets in the past, though nothing I'd call Neapolitan. I don't anymore, because they don't flatter my sloped shoulders.

Parker · Oct 20, 2010

Nice stuff, gdl. Did you get a full Donegal suit? You could be the first iGent on the block with one.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

^^^ Those look pretty good--but I think they'd look even better with a lapped shoulder seam. I think it goes hand-in-hand with a shirt-set sleeve.

Originally Posted by Rambo

+1. I'm completely lost in how this would be aesthetically pleasing on anything but the shoulder.

I ask Chan for lapped seams everywhere since I think they go well with the shirt shoulder and style of suit I prefer. If the pick stitching is not too "loud", the overlapping effect adds a nice texture, especially to a plain or simple cloth. But then again I am a louche villager.

Slewfoot · Oct 20, 2010

Parker - we need some photos of the lapped seams when you get a chance. Curious how Chan did them. Thanks!

WW Chan's Neopolitan shoulder construction - pictures

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