Do any of you believe in God?

Originally Posted by rob

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I'm not talking about existence of god and not that all people have to believe that god exists, but merely that my belief in god is warranted. That is, it comes from a properly functioning noetic structure. Most people, in most societies for almost all of history, have had a sense of god. I think it's quite natural. The opposite seems to be the exception.

Rob

now we are getting some meat a basic beliefe should nto depend upon society to be clearly evident rational or warranted. it should be clear as the sun in platos allegory of the cave. the crux here is can you make the case that it has the 3 qualifiers naturally to savage, or does a"properly fucntioning" society make them apparently basic in the society, but for the sake of true epistemology not truly basic.

Originally Posted by rob

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And why is that? If I have the epistemic obligation to provide evidence for some proposition p, would not you have the same epistemic obligation to provide evidence for the proposition (not) p?
No. I just have to disprove your evidence or find where it's faulty. You need to make the claim that god exists and prove it. Plus, if I have no belief in p, why would I set out to prove it doesn't exist? To use a very cliche example, if I don't believe in Leprechauns - why would I try to prove that they don't exist?

Originally Posted by rob

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Your last statement makes no sense at all.
It makes complete sense. Atheists only exist because religious beliefs exist. Without religious beliefs or people trying to say that a god exists, there'd be nothing to disprove. See example above about Leprechauns.

Everyone is an atheist until exposed to the idea of god. Some remain atheists, others will support the idea of god by claiming belief. The idea of god is a self defense mechanism that has been utilized by humans as a species which is why it's rooted deep in our history since our cognitive functioning became so complex. All other animals are atheists, so were our evolutionary ancestors. God didn't become an idea until the progression of human cognitive functioning, so we created it, it didn't create us.

Originally Posted by Nosu3

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All other animals are atheists, so were our evolutionary ancestors.

Hey I'm not an atheist! I'm Cat-Lick!

Everyone knows the GODS are on Mt Olympus. Fuckin duh.

Originally Posted by Nosu3

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Everyone is an atheist until exposed to the idea of god. Some remain atheists, others will support the idea of god by claiming belief. The idea of god is a self defense mechanism that has been utilized by humans as a species which is why it's rooted deep in our history since our cognitive functioning became so complex. All other animals are atheists, so were our evolutionary ancestors. God didn't become an idea until the progression of human cognitive functioning, so we created it, it didn't create us.

Mhm. It scares people to think that life is random and meaningless. It scares people that when they die, that's it "” you just cease to exist. Hence why they make up "God" and "heaven" and so on.

Originally Posted by MiddleClassDude

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Basically science tells me aliens probably exist before God.

Originally Posted by gfreeman

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Mhm. It scares people to think that life is random and meaningless. It scares people that when they die, that's it "” you just cease to exist. Hence why they make up "God" and "heaven" and so on.

As a description of a "paternal God" then yes.

But a god does not have to be in anyway shape or form involved with us now. I think the argument that 300 years ago we believed the world was flat, is also the argument why NOW we can't know a tiny fraction of what there is to know.

People have only had science and technology for 70 years or so. I think at this juncture it is just as ignorant to rule out "a god" (whatever that means), than to deny evolution.

Hence agnostic - open minded.

I was going to quote John Lennon lyrics from 'God', but I think the Butthole Surfers said it better

God, Zeus, Allah, Buddha.
Bob Dylan on a motor scooter.
Allah, Buddha, God, Zeus.
Gotta get me a red caboose.
Buddha, God, Zeus, Allah.
Mexico in a low Impala.
Zeus, Allah, Buddha, God.
Eco suda pinchay a nada.
We love him.
We love him.
We love him.
Zeus, Allah, Buddha, God.
Eco suda la ching ga.
God, Zeus, Allah, Buddha.
Bob Dylan on a motor scooter.
We love him.
We love him.

I do...not in a human lord but a massive GOD who created everything according to laws.

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

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I think the argument that 300 years ago we believed the world was flat, is also the argument why NOW we can't know a tiny fraction of what there is to know.
This is is quite ignorant. When we thought the world was flat, it was because of the same reasons we used to (some still do) believe in God. It's made up because we didn't actually try to find the answer. We just assumed the easiest thing we can think of. We now know better because we looked for the answer, through science. We can never prove there is no God, as you can not prove that something is not there. What you can do is look at the evidence. I think what the evidence says is clear.

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

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People have only had science and technology for 70 years or so. I think at this juncture it is just as ignorant to rule out "a god" (whatever that means), than to deny evolution. .
WAT? We only have science for 70 years or so? Where the hell did you go to school? As far as I know the ancient greeks did NOT live 70 years ago.

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

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People have only had science and technology for 70 years or so. I think at this juncture it is just as ignorant to rule out "a god" (whatever that means), than to deny evolution.

I guess in the sense that if you want to call 'god' the catalyst that began existence, then there IS or WAS something, because something happened to cause existence. As for now what that was is unknowable. But as far as a human or humanoid, sentient being that 'watches' this planet and it's people specifically, it seems like silly. Because why would heaven just apply to our planet, when there is infinity out there? Unless there are other gods watching other planets it seems silly. Maybe there are.

So, specific skybro? Nah... or meh...

Something beyond, something not understandable? Maybe...

This thread started out nicely enough, but has now taken a turn for the unbelievably moronic.

1) People who say God exists and God doesn't exist BOTH have the burden of proof when they want to convince others of their view. We have explained this ad nauseum in previous threads.

2) Establishing an equivalency between God's existance and Leprechauns' (or orbiting teacups', or the flying spaghetti monster's) existence is based on some unspoken and fairly questionable assumptions. You are free to believe that God's existence is no more credible than theirs, of course, but if you want to form a persuasive argument, you have to deal with the issue's complexities rather than going for arch reductionism. If you don't know what these complexities are, you shouldn't be debating this issue either way.

2) Both the ancient Greeks and the ancient Hebrews knew the Earth was round. This was a settled matter long before 300 years ago.

3) Science has always existed to whatever degree people were able to practice it. The scientific method was codified by Francis Bacon in the 16th Century. He was not an atheist. The only difference between science then and science now is that the conceptual tool of scientific inquiry has become overextended and know-nothings are demanding we accept scientific truth to the exclusion of all other forms of truth. This notion of science's exclusive claim to truth is in no way advised by the scientific method.

4) Science is a complete red herring in this discussion. Anytime an atheist brings up "science" as a way of explaining his beliefs, it's a pretty good indication that he has no idea what he's talking about.

Originally Posted by Wess

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This is is quite ignorant. When we thought the world was flat, it was because of the same reasons we used to (some still do) believe in God. It's made up because we didn't actually try to find the answer. We just assumed the easiest thing we can think of. We now know better because we looked for the answer, through science.

But we know now the the Earth is round, and people are still debating God's existence as they have for time immemorial, and as they always will. So obviously the two issues are nothing alike.

This is just really such a baffling non-argument you have here.

I find it funny that all of a sudden we're innundated with noowatheists who swear up and down that science is incompatible with a belief in God. Where were all these people a mere six or seven years ago? I mean, the scientific method has remained unchanged for hundreds of years, and there has been no scientific discovery in recent memory that has changed the debate about God's existence one bit. Yet suddenly, great masses of people have decided that science and religion are incompatible. Doesn't this just prove that the spread of atheism has nothing at all to do with science in any substantive sense, and everything to do with social trends? -- and aren't social trends precisely what atheists accused religions of being in the first place?

We can never prove there is no God, as you can not prove that something is not there. What you can do is look at the evidence. I think what the evidence says is clear.

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What is this evidence? What does it say?

Originally Posted by christinejoel

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When I reach home after a long day work and mingle with my family makes me believe that God exists who's given me yet another day to be with them...!

See... spambots believe in God!

Originally Posted by Wess

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This is is quite ignorant. When we thought the world was flat, it was because of the same reasons we used to (some still do) believe in God. It's made up because we didn't actually try to find the answer. We just assumed the easiest thing we can think of. We now know better because we looked for the answer, through science.

We can never prove there is no God, as you can not prove that something is not there. What you can do is look at the evidence. I think what the evidence says is clear.



WAT? We only have science for 70 years or so? Where the hell did you go to school? As far as I know the ancient greeks did NOT live 70 years ago.

Dumbest argument I've seen in a while. Please learn how the "scientific method" works.

Credo.

what makes science a red herring when it comes to the questioning of a gods existence, or lack thereof?