Mod to Suedehead

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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But speaking of loafers, the "skinhead" loafer is a tassle loafer with a vamp (kiltie optional, but I think most prefer no fringe).

I got my first tassel loafers in 1969 at the Squire Shop in Soho. Not much on the web about this shop, but you can find a few mentions if you google it. Also got a pair of brogues and plain wing-tips there.

Squire shop is quite famous, along with The Ivy Shop/J Simons

was Squire the place that was located along Shaftesbury? Would love to go back in a time machine to places like that, as well as The Last Resort shop down Glouston St near Brick Lane in the early 80s.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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I do mine in a light grey thread, it blends in with the weft side of the turnup. and you should stitch all the way around, not just every few inches so that it can gape open at the spots not sewn down. 1/2" is the usual amount for the sewn down turnup

here's my jeans for today with 1/2" sewn turnup, grey thread. oxblood "for life" DMs and Strike Gold jeans

Very nice, I would have never thought grey, but that's what I'll be trying!

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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not a fan of patent leather! but thanks for the heads up on that shop, never heard of it

I thought you had meant to post that pic in the Trickers thread. But speaking of loafers, the "skinhead" loafer is a tassle loafer with a vamp (kiltie optional, but I think most prefer no fringe). The penny loafers asked about earlier are more "mod" loafers than skinhead, but with all the cross pollination the styles do get merged a bit.

I know that penny loafers aren't so traditional, but I'm trying to (I know this sounds ridiculous and will make me sound like a poser) get together a little rudeboy outfit. I know this is crossing two different styles, but to me it works a little better than a lot of other combinations you see about. I also really like tassel loafers, Loakes' Brighton model looks absolutely fantastic, I haven't seen a better looking one. Unfortunately I have a **** job and things like $200 are still expensive to me.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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Was Squire the place that was located along Shaftesbury? Would love to go back in a time machine to places like that...

It's a heck of a long time ago, GS, but as far as I recall it wasn't too far away from Shaftesbury Ave - in fact in Brewer St. W1.

maybe MoM can add his first hand info on this, but what I've heard from an original 68 London skin was that the white boys were skinheads back in the day, and there really weren't any black skinheads, but rather that the ones in the same circle who went to clubs and hung around were classified as rude boys. But no white boy would have been a rude boy. And to dispel the myth that original skinhead was a racially harmonious kum bah yah circle jerk fest, the black fellas werent generally allowed into clubs unless they came with whites who were their friends, as if you were vouched for. So of course there was a mix of black and white youth, but there's a lot of mythology out there that skinheads were originally created by black kids.

and speaking of urban myths....MoM what was the music you guys listened to back in 68/9? I found it really interesting when the same London 1968 skinhead told me that reggae wasnt really that big in London back then, of course it was played, but that soul and pop were more popular and preferred. I've actually heard it from others who were around during that time that agree that it wasnt as heavily ska/reggae-centric as traditional skinhead events are in 2010.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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maybe MoM can add his first hand info on this, but what I've heard from an original 68 London skin was that the white boys were skinheads back in the day, and there really weren't any black skinheads, but rather that the ones in the same circle who went to clubs and hung around were classified as rude boys. But no white boy would have been a rude boy. And to dispel the myth that original skinhead was a racially harmonious kum bah yah circle jerk fest, the black fellas werent generally allowed into clubs unless they came with whites who were their friends, as if you were vouched for. So of course there was a mix of black and white youth, but there's a lot of mythology out there that skinheads were originally created by black kids.

and speaking of urban myths....MoM what was the music you guys listened to back in 68/9? I found it really interesting when the same London 1968 skinhead told me that reggae wasnt really that big in London back then, of course it was played, but that soul and pop were more popular and preferred. I've actually heard it from others who were around during that time that agree that it wasnt as heavily ska/reggae-centric as traditional skinhead events are in 2010.

It seemed to take off mainly amongst white kids; you saw the occasional black skinhead (there was one in a group of mates of mine, Fred Dove was his name). The overt racialism, however, was a tail-end thing in the 60s scene and I wanted absolutely no part of that because I had black/Asian/Chinese friends outside the scene.

Although the term "Rude Boy" can be heard in (for example) early Desmond Dekker records, I never heard it applied to people until the early 80s revival. However, just because I never heard it doesn't mean it wasn't so.

Music: Tamla Motown was big as were some soul classics. But Ska/Rock-Steady/Reggae was heard a lot in the clubs too throughout the late 60s. I used to buy Reggae records in a West Indian record shop in Deptford High St. I saw Desmond Dekker and the Aces at The Daylight Inn, Petts Wood (Kent), on the day Israelites got to No1 in the UK charts. He was late on stage because he had to go and do it live on Top of the Pops. I saw the Supremes at Lewisham Odeon (now demolished).

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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maybe MoM can add his first hand info on this, but what I've heard from an original 68 London skin was that the white boys were skinheads back in the day, and there really weren't any black skinheads, but rather that the ones in the same circle who went to clubs and hung around were classified as rude boys. But no white boy would have been a rude boy. And to dispel the myth that original skinhead was a racially harmonious kum bah yah circle jerk fest, the black fellas werent generally allowed into clubs unless they came with whites who were their friends, as if you were vouched for. So of course there was a mix of black and white youth, but there's a lot of mythology out there that skinheads were originally created by black kids.

and speaking of urban myths....MoM what was the music you guys listened to back in 68/9? I found it really interesting when the same London 1968 skinhead told me that reggae wasnt really that big in London back then, of course it was played, but that soul and pop were more popular and preferred. I've actually heard it from others who were around during that time that agree that it wasnt as heavily ska/reggae-centric as traditional skinhead events are in 2010.
Yeah, you always hear SHARPs ranting on and on about how it's always been about unity and the first skinheads were black, blah blah blah. Now what I say is just what I think. Since I wasn't there I can't say for certain. But it seems the case is that race wasn't part of being a skinhead, it was more of the style, attitude and music. I always figured that traditional skinheads used to hang with the rudeboys, sort of like how since the 80's punk and skins hang out. Two different subcultures but they share something like music. And when i was talking about rudeboy I was mainly talking about those 2tone types, not authentic rudeboys, but some stylish guys in my opinion (love watching the Specials music videos).

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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It seemed to take off mainly amongst white kids; you saw the occasional black skinhead (there was one in a group of mates of mine, Fred Dove was his name). The overt racialism, however, was a tail-end thing in the 60s scene and I wanted absolutely no part of that because I had black/Asian/Chinese friends outside the scene.

Although the term "Rude Boy" can be heard in (for example) early Desmond Dekker records, I never heard it applied to people until the early 80s revival. However, just because I never heard it doesn't mean it wasn't so.

Music: Tamla Motown was big as were some soul classics. But Ska/Rock-Steady/Reggae was heard a lot in the clubs too throughout the late 60s. I used to buy Reggae records in a West Indian record shop in Deptford High St. I saw Desmond Dekker and the Aces at The Daylight Inn, Petts Wood (Kent), on the day Israelites got to No1 in the UK charts. He was late on stage because he had to go and do it live on Top of the Pops. I saw the Supremes at Lewisham Odeon (now demolished).

Crazy story about Desmond Dekker MoM ! I'm sure that's something you'll remember forever!

The first skinheads were mainly white (I repeat mainly, not exclusively), but the origin of some of the mod/skinhead fashions did have roots in black fashions, particularly the sharp suits of Motown groups. Like I said, I did know some black skinheads. However, when it became more of a mass movement, quite naturally one began to find the prejudices of the general population absorbed.

Dekker was pretty amazing on stage!

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

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when it became more of a mass movement, quite naturally one began to find the prejudices of the general population absorbed.


yes this is an important point. SOCIETY at the time was generally racist, so any racialist attitudes among original skinheads was a by-product of the day's social mores, not any ideological stance because they were skins.

M-o-M do you ever, or are you tempted, to go to any traditional skinhead 'dos? When I've gone to a few clubs in London I always see older guys who have gotten back into the fold so to speak, enjoying the music and still getting out on the dance floor.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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on my For Life's i've been doing the usual rotation of oxblood (I use Cherry Blossom, or Timpsons or Carr & Daily which all make great oxblood polish) and black (kiwi). I also threw into the rotation Trickers neutral, which really gave the boots an extra kick as far as deepening the leather and shine. The boots are kinda dull when new (as most DMs are), but after about a week and half of polishing nearly daily, they look great now, as far as getting that deep color and a proper shine.

Ive been following this thread for a while, and thought i should add some kind of comments.
As for Boots for Life, its worth mentioning that there is a £25 admin charge when you get them replaced. Which i know, more than covers the cost of a new pair.

And hello Jason (get smart), you seem to get everywhere.

Anyway, interesting thread and is there another subculture that so many urban myths (bullshit) repeated about it ?

What's everyone's consensus on DM's Adrian Tassel loafer? It's on sale for $100 now and it looks pretty nice but I'm afraid afterwards I'll start to hate the airwair sole.

Its basically a Loake Brighton, with a DM sole. Loake are one of the only factories with the machinery to finish the Loafer vamp/kiltie. With the "pork pie" stringed edging.
So 90% of shoe makers use the Loake factory finishers.
I guess they are ok, but only ok. But they are comfortable.
Not even close to the Goodyear welted sole.

And i know what you mean by getting to hate the sole. They do wellies, high heels etc etc

Plenty of reasons to hate them.

Originally Posted by Ikouja

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What's everyone's consensus on DM's Adrian Tassel loafer?

if it's going to be your first loafer, I wouldnt get the DMs, better to get some proper leather sole loafers first. The DM ones are a real love it/hate it shoe. They look far better when worn then they ever will in just product photos.