straight from the bench

DWF, what is the advantage/disadvantage of extending the sole all the way to the heel of the shoe and then stacking the heel over top of it as opposed to just stopping the sole and stacking the heel right against the insole? Does this question make sense?

Originally Posted by edmorel

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and tastes like chicken............
Really? Are we talking about women or alligators?

Great last shape, not too elongated and not too round. I also like the toe shape very much. Not a huge fan of teh "high" waist and high heel but that seems to be de riguer in bespoke shoes.

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Well, I like a higher heel because I'm short and have worn even higher heels for most of my adult life. But in my opinion it would be a bit clumsy,visually, to do the fiddleback and beveled waist in a lower heel--5/8", for instance. More than that, the fiddleback waist is harder to do than a standard flat waist and I am trying to get my waists to the point where the beveled edge is less than the thickness of the outsole (10 iron, excluding the welt--usually around 4 iron). I want to end up with somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 iron in the waist--right around 3/16" in other words. Anyway, the point is that many makers...myself included...tend to showcase the difficult work. With bespoke work, if the higher heel and beveled waist seems more common it is either because the customers are wanting it or because the makers are photographing it more often.

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

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DWF, what is the advantage/disadvantage of extending the sole all the way to the heel of the shoe and then stacking the heel over top of it as opposed to just stopping the sole and stacking the heel right against the insole? Does this question make sense?
Patrick, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. There is an old technique that may still be used in some English shops where the outsole and heel seat piece are cut separately. Cutting an outsole this way is called "the three-quarter knife." I never understood the reason for that except as a material and money saving measure. In fact, Thornton...who serves as a useful and relatively contemporary bridge between bespoke and commercial sensibilities...says quite clearly that cutting the three-quarter knife "cheapens the sole considerably." (J.H. Thornton, Textbook of Footwear Manufacture, National Trade Press, London, 1953, pp218) But the heelseat piece is not part of the heel stack. More than that, the upper leather will almost certainly be drafted (pulled) over the insole and sewn to the insole and then a piece of leather (called the seat lift) cut the same thickness as the welt (4 irons +/-) will be added. So no method of attaching the outsole would go directly against the insole in any case.

Beautiful.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Patrick,

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. There is an old technique that may still be used in some English shops where the outsole and heel seat piece are cut separately. Cutting an outsole this way called "the three-quarter knife."

I never understood the reason for that except as a material and money saving measure. In fact, Thornton...who serves as a useful and relatively contemporary bridge between bespoke and commercial sensibilities...says quite clearly that cutting the three-quarter knife "cheapens the sole considerably." (J.H. Thornton, Textbook of Footwear Manufacture, National Trade Press, London, 1953, pp218)

But the heelseat piece is not part of the heel stack.

More than that, the upper leather will almost certainly be drafted (pulled) over the insole and sewn to the insole and then a piece of leather (called the seat lift) cut the same thickness as the welt (4 irons +/-) will be added. So no method of attaching the outsole would go directly against the insole in any case.

Yeah, I am referring to how the heel and the waist portion looks like two separate pieces in that heel closeup photo.

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

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Yeah, I am referring to how the heel and the waist portion looks like two separate pieces in that heel closeup photo.
Patrick, Oh, I see. Well, that's an optical illusion. The outsole in the waist is cut such that it makes the heel look taller and draws attention to the sharp and straight edge of the heel stack. That's an old technique that you don't see much anymore because it very nearly requires careful handwork. I've been doing it on boots for nearly as long as I've been making boots but I recently saw the same treatment on a pair of G&G and thought it was especially appropriate for the beveled waist. Rest assured, I would not use a three quarter knife. All my outsoles run the length of the shoe.

I do not personally like alligator but those look like very nice shoes and you should be proud to own and wear them.

Originally Posted by Animal Thug

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DW, I have recently started hand making my soft-sided cases and am wondering, if there is 1 thing I needed to know about hand stitching leather, what would that be?
It's kind of OT, isn't it? That said, without knowing what "look" you are aiming for, or what tools and leathers you are using, it is almost impossible to give you any kind of answer, much less one.. Nevertheless I'll tell you the one thing...the most important thing...you can learn or know know no matter what kind of leather work you're doing--how to sharpen a knife correctly.

I think these are great. I'm generally not a fan of "exotic" leather but you created something really nice and elegant.

May I ask if you're able to produce shoes with the recessed metal toe plates? I think those really add value.

Originally Posted by Joenobody0

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I think these are great. I'm generally not a fan of "exotic" leather but you created something really nice and elegant. May I ask if you're able to produce shoes with the recessed metal toe plates? I think those really add value.
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I can do recessed metal plates if a customer insists. Bespoke shoes are made to the customer's specs as far as it is possible. But I don't like toe plates, don't like the looks, don't like the way they interfere with a proper job of outsoling...don't like 'em, don't like 'em.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Thank you for the kind words.

Yes, I can do recessed metal plates if a customer insists. Bespoke shoes are made to the customer's specs as far as it is possible. But I don't like toe plates, don't like the looks, don't like the way they interfere with a proper job of outsoling...don't like 'em, don't like 'em.

For a "toe dragger" like me, they're a shoe saver!

Originally Posted by Joenobody0

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For a "toe dragger" like me, they're a shoe saver!
Well, I understand and I would not try to talk you out of them but I might just make several points for you to mull upon in the future. First, you can learn to walk without dragging your toes. Second, I cannot for the life of me conceive how a set of toe plates can be installed on a made pair of shoes without the nail or screws that hold the plates on cutting into the inseam or the inseam threads. And that weakens the shoe and the elements that hold it together. Even if you make a pair of shoes with the intent of putting toe plates on, you must compromise the integrity of the outseam (and probably the inseam as well)...simply because the outsole must be thinned. If the shoes are GY welted, it may not make a difference for a whole host of reasons but on a bespoke shoe it almost certainly will cause some damage. That's my opinion, based upon experience with toe plates many years ago combined with what I know of shoe construction. That said, I'm sure I've gored somebody's ox today.

DWFII,

Very impressive, I like the way you were able to align the gator's squales on the vamps. The toe as said by others is really interresting. I am not a fan of "high heels" but know and respect the resaon for them.
I am admirative.

Adrian

Originally Posted by ajv

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DWFII, Very impressive, I like the way you were able to align the gator's squales on the vamps. The toe as said by others is really interresting. I am not a fan of "high heels" but know and respect the resaon for them. I am admirative. Adrian
Adrian, Thank you. I appreciate it. Did you mean "scales?" If so, I was always taught that a tanned alligator, like snakeskin and lizard has no scales. They are removed. What's left are called "tiles"...or sometimes in the case of snake, "petals." If you meant "squales" in reference to the spaces between the tiles...I don't think I've heard that term before. But I have to tell you that I fiddled and fiddled with various pieces of gator until I came up with that layout. Even with better pieces, closer to the belly or throat, nothing looked as good. I think it elevates these into the realm of acceptable...if not elegant. That and the fact they're not purple.

DW, these shoes are breathtaking. Great craftsmanship everywhere ... hats off to your skill.

The owner is a really lucky soul.