High Armhole...

Obviously they allow for a bit more movement. However, I believe it's a bit exaggerated about how well they alone do the job.

Wouldn't the angle a sleeve is attached also have a huge part in movement? For instance. If a sleeve of a shirt or jacket is attached at 90 degrees, then you can raise your arm 90 degrees before it pulls... the shirt pulls regardless once the angle it was set in is surpassed (high or low armhole)

The armhole height DOES matter. I'm not saying it doesn't, but just thinking that angle the sleeve is set would matter as well.

Originally Posted by Jay687

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Wouldn't the angle a sleeve is attached also have a huge part in movement? For instance. If a sleeve of a shirt or jacket is attached at 90 degrees, then you can raise your arm 90 degrees before it pulls... the shirt pulls regardless once the angle it was set in is surpassed (high or low armhole
Kind of; it is possible to have the sleeve attached at a wider angle, this is often done for suits for use in performance by people such as violinists or ballroom dancers who have their arms held up most of the time. This wouldn't be recommended for most people though, as it causes a very messy under-arm when the arms are lowered, which is how the majority of people have their arms most of the time.

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

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Kind of; it is possible to have the sleeve attached at a wider angle, this is often done for suits for use in performance by people such as violinists or ballroom dancers who have their arms held up most of the time. This wouldn't be recommended for most people though, as it causes a very messy under-arm when the arms are lowered, which is how the majority of people have their arms most of the time.

but if it's the under-arm, who would see it?

Originally Posted by Svenn

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but if it's the under-arm, who would see it?
Just because it's the under-arm does not mean it's all hidden up in the arm-pit, there will be plenty of visibility to the effect. Hopefully someone else (Despos?) can elaborate on the exact results it would have.

SM is correct. Here is the back (and underarm) of one of my sleeves with a hint of excess underneath And here is a ballroom dancer's sleeve The front of the ballroom dancer's sleeve often looks as funky- A more complete explanation of this sleeve and why a gusset is not sufficient can be found on the tailor's blog, from which I lifted these images. It would be up to you to decide which is more important to you- appearance or mobility, and to what degree you are willing to sacrifice mobility for appearance. Then find a tailor who is experienced in this kind of sleeve because not all are.

So, there is a limit. And I would then think there is a limit to mobility in general with any stiff fabrics. This would include dress shirts for instance, which while better than a jacket, do not offer the same stretch as a t-shirt.

It would be cool if you could get the mobility of a ballroom dancers jacket with the looks on a normal one. Mobility and appearance... unfortunately they have an inverse relationship it seems.

Originally Posted by Jay687

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It would be cool if you could get the mobility of a ballroom dancers jacket with the looks on a normal one. Mobility and appearance... unfortunately they have an inverse relationship it seems.

You can always wear a spandex body-stocking. 100% mobility in every direction with no creasing or pulling. You may elicit some strange looks from people though.

^thanks Jefferyd. I may be over-concerned about mobility just because my current jacket, with seemingly very high armholes, has errors I wouldn't otherwise have in better quality bespoke... that dancer's sleeve does certainly look like too much. It's good to see at least tailor are conscious of this, are you one of the tailors capable of incorporating elements of this into your sleeves? And if he's not around, do any of you know his contact details or website?

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

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You can always wear a spandex body-stocking. 100% mobility in every direction with no creasing or pulling. You may elicit some strange looks from people though.

there was a dude a while back who was quite fixated on convincing us that because of his 20" or whatever drop, the only things that worked for him were fabrics with spandex in them... we were clearly in fetish territory.

Originally Posted by jefferyd

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SM is correct.

Here is the back (and underarm) of one of my sleeves with a hint of excess underneath

Good stuff. I might post some new pics.


- B

There is a step between a fitted jacket and the ballroom dancer effect. You have to strike a balance of armhole height/depth, shape, position, width of the armhole, shoulder line, shoulder height, overall balance and then the canvass and haircloth/chest piece and how the armhole is prepped by taping or by hand will effect your comfort level too. Then consider the sleeve shape and how it is cut relative to the armhole, how it is sewn/set into the jacket, how much fullness and how it is distributed. Then how the jacket back is cut and fitted, back width, yoke width, how the shoulder is made. These are all ingredients in the recipe. They all are in relationship to each other and contribute to the fit, movement and comfort you have or don't have. This is what tailors analyze and watch for on the fitting. Perfect armhole and a poorly cut sleeve or a good sleeve and poorly shaped armhole and you won't feel right or move well in the jacket. It all works together.

I for one want to see more action/bi-swing backs.

Originally Posted by Despos

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There is a step between a fitted jacket and the ballroom dancer effect. You have to strike a balance of armhole height/depth, shape, position, width of the armhole, shoulder line, shoulder height, overall balance and then the canvass and haircloth/chest piece and how the armhole is prepped by taping or by hand will effect your comfort level too. Then consider the sleeve shape and how it is cut relative to the armhole, how it is sewn/set into the jacket, how much fullness and how it is distributed. Then how the jacket back is cut and fitted, back width, yoke width, how the shoulder is made. These are all ingredients in the recipe. They all are in relationship to each other and contribute to the fit, movement and comfort you have or don't have. This is what tailors analyze and watch for on the fitting. Perfect armhole and a poorly cut sleeve or a good sleeve and poorly shaped armhole and you won't feel right or move well in the jacket. It all works together.

This is exactly why I won't go back to HK for a suit, I really don't think any of them are capable of achieving this.

Originally Posted by Svenn

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This is exactly why I won't go back to HK for a suit, I really don't think any of them are capable of achieving this.

That's a pretty bold, general statement Svenn. I am not saying that I disagree, but any chance you can enlighten us on your experiences that led you to that conclusion?

Does it just make sense for the general man's suit to have a high armhole accompanied by a generous upper sleeve? I have a lot of suits that have high armholes, but they are useless because the upper arm is so slim that the fabric just grabs the outer portion of my shoulder when I raise my arm, which moves the body body of the suit. Correct sleeve pitch at a normal standing position is good enough for me.

I think an angled shoulder seam allowing the pack panels to be cut slightly on a bias gives the jacket more "stretch" as well.