For my dearest Kyle: dinner at the French Laundry

Roikins · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by iammatt

I don't know. I kind of like that. I agree it goes too far sometimes, but good food is about clear flavors, IMO, and I'd certainly rather see something too minimal than a thousand ingredients on a plate and look at all of my pretty, pretty flowers.

No, I agree, simpler is much preferred -- clean flavors with good technique. But there seem to be more places in SF with dishes that are going too extreme; I think it's the newer batch of chefs opening places that think they will win more local customers over by playing into that SF stereotype. That's the other thing I've gathered from talking to some newer SF chefs recently -- they're really into their local foraging, so there will be more wild flowers, herbs, and mushrooms.

itsstillmatt · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by Roikins

No, I agree, simpler is much preferred -- clean flavors with good technique. But there seem to be more places in SF with dishes that are going too extreme; I think it's the newer batch of chefs opening places that think they will win more local customers over by playing into that SF stereotype. That's the other thing I've gathered from talking to some newer SF chefs recently -- they're really into their local foraging, so there will be more wild flowers, herbs, and mushrooms.

I guess I will have the pleasure of complaining a bit more.

voxsartoria · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by iammatt

There is a difference between polarized and regionalized. The decline of one can coincide with the increase in the other. Familiarity breeds contempt and all.

That's a good point, and I'm not confident that I'm right. If I look back at my own life, though, I feel that my countrymen are converging in subliminal behavior and social belief more than diverging.

- B

Manton · Aug 19, 2010

I am so easy to please. I have eaten very well in SF over the last decade.

Piobaire · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by philosophe

+1. But just thinking of Styx makes me feel old.

Did you know a minor Scottish-Canadian musician from the 80s is now their lead singer? Omnius Spiritus.

A.K.A. · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

There's wisdom in this comment.

Right now, my favorite American restaurants tend to be simpler places that surprise me with ingredient quality that I don't expect at the price and that show some enthusiasm for the inherent and subtle flavor of things.

- B

+1. CIA, Johnson and Wales, and Le Cordon Bleau have given us well trained chefs. When the technique on fresh ingredients is well executed, then a meal can be sublime, regardless of venue.

I agree with you about your other point regarding the widespread availability of good restaurants all over the country. I have experienced the same in obscure restaurants such as Lonestar Barbecue in Santee, SC. The same should go without saying in cities such as Chicago or Atlanta or DC or Baltimore.

The biggest disappointments have come from destination restaurants, e.g. Gary Danko in SF, or Aureole in Las Vegas. These big names seem to be resting on their laurels. I prefer a place that has to maintain its high standards to keep the locals coming back.

Rambo · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by Rambo

I'm not a FINE-diner so I have no idea how customer service at a place like FL works. Can you complain? Do you tell your waiter that the food's tastes off? I understand that sous-vide prep is iffy temperature wise but ****** tasting is ****** tasting on a personal basis. I can't imagine dropping 3 bills and leaving disappointed.
I know this sounds like I'm trolling but I am really curious about the answer.

itsstillmatt · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by Rambo

I know this sounds like I'm trolling but I am really curious about the answer.
You could, but you really don't unless something is prepared incorrectly. Your foie gras is gross doesn't tend to go over very well.

philosophe · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by iammatt

I think there are a lot of reasons. I think a lot of it has to do with the whole idea of chef as star, and so many people are out to make their name, and finally make a few dollars which cooks do not do, that they leave early and never get the basics that they really need, or at least that they got years ago. I also think that a lot of the "new cuisine" is pretty tasteless in the hands of people who are not super skilled, and that, in conjunction, it is difficult to be seen as a top restaurant unless you make that kind of stuff, especially in cities which see themselves as cutting edge.

+1. So much restaurant food lacks a grounding in good technique, and I really am sick of dishes with too many ingredients.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Right now, my favorite American restaurants tend to be simpler places that surprise me with ingredient quality that I don't expect at the price and that show some enthusiasm for the inherent and subtle flavor of things.

Food 101 done well.
- B

Agree 100%. Good technique and good ingredients don't need disguises and gimmicks.

@Foodguy: Your story about Victor Hazan has me craving a slice of Marcella's walnut cake.

foodguy · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by philosophe

+1. So much restaurant food lacks a grounding in good technique, and I really am sick of dishes with too many ingredients.

i agree with everything you said, but especially this. if there is a single flaw that i find most often in fine dining situations it's the tendency to try to cram an entire tasting menu onto one plate. this is where simpler is better really comes to the fore. i've had so many dishes where the central component was absolutely great, but it was overwhelmed by tacking on needless accompaniments that had only fleeting correspondence to the main feature.

Roikins · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by iammatt

I guess I will have the pleasure of complaining a bit more.

Oh yes, and it's spreading to the bar scene; Bar Agricole just opened in their LEED certified building and will sport a 500-square-foot biodynamic garden planted with citrus fruit trees and herbs like hyssop and savory. It means Vogler's cocktails will be completely artisanal, sustainable and, when possible, made with all biodynamic ingredients.

"Interestingly, the gardener is also choosing the wine list for the restaurant."

"Other beverage touches will include a single beer on tap to ensure it is served as fresh as possible, and a selection of spirits with an emphasis on local, organic, and biodynamic products from some of our favorite local distillers."

Maybe you'll enjoy the menu.

foodguy · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by Roikins

No, I agree, simpler is much preferred -- clean flavors with good technique. But there seem to be more places in SF with dishes that are going too extreme; I think it's the newer batch of chefs opening places that think they will win more local customers over by playing into that SF stereotype. That's the other thing I've gathered from talking to some newer SF chefs recently -- they're really into their local foraging, so there will be more wild flowers, herbs, and mushrooms.
i think i see your point, but i'd be interested in hearing a concrete example of where this actually worked to the detriment of the dish. beyond being irritatingto have to listen to.

poorsod · Aug 19, 2010

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

There's wisdom in this comment.

Right now, my favorite American restaurants tend to be simpler places that surprise me with ingredient quality that I don't expect at the price and that show some enthusiasm for the inherent and subtle flavor of things.

Food 101 done well.

- B

Have you been to Blue Hill at Stone Barns yet? It fits the bill. There is some variation on my dining experience there depending on what was being harvested at the time. I've been during winter, spring, and summer. The meal was very good during the winter and summer but somewhat less spectacular during the spring.

milosz · Aug 19, 2010

Anthony Bourdain's newest book has a chapter about a 20-course meal at French Laundry which he wound up disappointed in. I don't think he criticized much of the food directly (focusing on the excess), but I was surprised to see him write negatively about a Keller restaurant at all.

voxsartoria · Aug 19, 2010

Simple done well is admirable for casual or every day food.

Beyond that, though, even if it is simple on the plate, I want to see and taste effort that is more than just not ******* up something good

Great Chinese food does this routinely, as does good food cooked in France.

Extraction and concentration of flavor often depends on careful, disciplined, and unromantic effort that has no explicit showy payoff in front of the diner.

- B

For my dearest Kyle: dinner at the French Laundry

Distinguished Member

The Liberator

Goon member

RINO

Not left of center?

Senior Member

Timed Out

The Liberator

Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member

Goon member

FEATURED PRODUCTS

Similar threads

Featured Sponsor

Definitely full canvas only

Half canvas is fine

Really don't care

Depends on fabric

Depends on price

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

FOLLOW STYLEFORUM ON: