Official new iPhone 4

Originally Posted by Rambo

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Two things that I haven't heard mentioned yet:

1) Why the 9/30 cutoff? Is that when the Verizon phone is coming? We got confirmation of that with the "we have Verizon cell towers on campus" line.

2) Why the **** did they pick a Blackberry Bold and a Samsung POS to show off? If they really wanted to make a rock solid comparison, why not use a Droid or EVO or Xperia?

Originally Posted by scb

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Video means nothing. Most people don't have their hand pushed up against the bottom of their cell phone. They create a cupping motion with their fingers and palm using the sides of the phone. Hence why it's such a big issue on the iPhone 4. You tend to touch the sides of your phone while holding it, and the antenna performance on the iPhone 4 in poor coverage is essentially brought to nil because of the way you are holding it. Combined with the fact that the iPhone is so popular, and that all adds up to antennagate. Here is a better Youtube vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-Ye...layer_embedded

Originally Posted by holymadness

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Apparently the press conference is turning into a train wreck.

The press are hounding them with questions in a rather hostile way while Jobs' answers are getting more and more sarcastic.

It was a PR nightmare, and unfortunately, the major press outlets aren't picking up on this. Its a flaw in the design, so just own up to it and offer free cases. Done. Don't try to play this off as a non-issue when independents are finding the iPhone has an abnormally large signal degradation.

That being said, I really like the phone and haven't had any issues with it.

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I spent $25 on an Invisible Shield thinking it would both protect my phone and cover the antenna bit. It doesn't. It only covers the front and back, not the edges/sides at all.

Originally Posted by blairh

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Combined with the fact that the iPhone is so popular, and that all adds up to antennagate.

mine works fine

Originally Posted by Douglas

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I spent $25 on an Invisible Shield thinking it would both protect my phone and cover the antenna bit. It doesn't. It only covers the front and back, not the edges/sides at all.

Its only supposed to protect the glass. Good for keeping it in your pocket with your keys and whatnot.

Originally Posted by scb

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mine works fine

Why do you keep defending your iPhone? Are you 12 years old? Do you not realize that despite all the honest things I've said about the phone regarding its faults I am indeed getting one? Dude, we get it, yours has no issues. Congrats. I'm speaking in a general sense with regards to the phone.

No, I didn't realize that, since I haven't read every single post in the 26 pages of this thread. I saw your 1 post and responded.

I just think the media is blowing this thing way out of proportion. Everyone I know with the iPhone 4 is perfectly content with it. So, in the "general sense," the iPhone 4 works fine. The media just wants to tell you it doesn't.

Originally Posted by scb

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No, I didn't realize that, since I haven't read every single post in the 26 pages of this thread. I saw your 1 post and responded. I just think the media is blowing this thing way out of proportion. Everyone I know with the iPhone 4 is perfectly content with it. So, in the "general sense," the iPhone 4 works fine. The media just wants to tell you it doesn't.
Forget the 26 pages. In the past 3 pages or so you have now twice responded to something negative that I have written about the iPhone. The first time you defended the iPhone you seemed to completely miss the fact that I wrote I was getting one regardless of the flaws. You responded a second time to another of my posts with "mine works fine". Like I said, I'm happy yours works. But I also think you don't particularly pay attention when you post on this thread. You read something anti iPhone and respond with a "yeah, mine is legit". The media is absolutely not blowing this out of proportion. Steve Jobs just wants you to think that. You are completely misinformed here. The media just wants to tell you it doesn't work? You do realize that pretty much every iPhone in poor 3G coverage is affected by this antenna issue. Do you really think Apple would give everyone a case if this wasn't truly an issue? They wouldn't, and despite what Steve wants you to think, the iPhone 4 is a flawed piece of hardware. But Apple will never admit that. If it doesn't affect your everyday life, awesome, but understand the facts and what is really going on here. If anything it's Apple that wants to tell you the phone is perfectly fine and it's been blow out of proportion, but in actuality it is the media that is bringing the truth to the surface. You have it completely backwards.

my phone works fine after scotch tape fix. it worked great before scotch tape fix. i will not waste any calories thinking about other's phones.

Originally Posted by blairh

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Forget the 26 pages. In the past 3 pages or so you have now twice responded to something negative that I have written about the iPhone. The first time you defended the iPhone you seemed to completely miss the fact that I wrote I was getting one regardless of the flaws. You responded a second time to another of my posts with "mine works fine". Like I said, I'm happy yours works. But I also think you don't particularly pay attention when you post on this thread. You read something anti iPhone and respond with a "yeah, mine is legit". The media is absolutely not blowing this out of proportion. Steve Jobs just wants you to think that. You are completely misinformed here. The media just wants to tell you it doesn't work? You do realize that pretty much every iPhone in poor 3G coverage is affected by this antenna issue. Do you really think Apple would give everyone a case if this wasn't truly an issue? They wouldn't, and despite what Steve wants you to think, the iPhone 4 is a flawed piece of hardware. But Apple will never admit that. If it doesn't affect your everyday life, awesome, but understand the facts and what is really going on here. If anything it's Apple that wants to tell you the phone is perfectly fine and it's been blow out of proportion, but in actuality it is the media that is bringing the truth to the surface. You have it completely backwards.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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I spent $25 on an Invisible Shield thinking it would both protect my phone and cover the antenna bit. It doesn't. It only covers the front and back, not the edges/sides at all.

Originally Posted by Rambo

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Its only supposed to protect the glass. Good for keeping it in your pocket with your keys and whatnot.
I stand corrected. Apparently, Zagg came out with a model that does cover the problem side. Take that back Dougy and get the right one.

Originally Posted by blairh

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Forget the 26 pages. In the past 3 pages or so you have now twice responded to something negative that I have written about the iPhone. The first time you defended the iPhone you seemed to completely miss the fact that I wrote I was getting one regardless of the flaws. You responded a second time to another of my posts with "mine works fine".

Like I said, I'm happy yours works. But I also think you don't particularly pay attention when you post on this thread. You read something anti iPhone and respond with a "yeah, mine is legit".

I don't know why I'm offending you so much that you feel the need to call me out like this, but ok, I'll bite. You're absolutely correct when you say I didn't particularly pay attention when I posted in this thread. I had no idea that both of my responses were directed towards the same person (you). I came in to see what was being said and I responded. I think a lot of people probably post in many threads in the same way. I simply thought I'd share that my real-world experience with what you're telling me is a "severey flawed product" is in fact quite the opposite.

Originally Posted by blairh

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The media is absolutely not blowing this out of proportion. Steve Jobs just wants you to think that. You are completely misinformed here. The media just wants to tell you it doesn't work?

While the media is telling me my phone has horrible reception, and while you're telling me that it is "severly flawed," my phone is working fine, and actually giving me better reception than my iPhone 3g had, especially in poor coverage areas. So, no, it's not that Steve Jobs wants me to think that the media is blowing this out of proportion. That's my own personal opinion after using this phone for almost a month.

Originally Posted by blairh

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You do realize that pretty much every iPhone in poor 3G coverage is affected by this antenna issue.

Sure, if someone holds the phone and bridges the antennas. The iPhone is not the only phone that works this way. One of the Droid phones user manuals even says (and i'm paraphrasing here) "don't touch this spot if you want good reception." So while I don't deny that this issue exists, I don't see the 3 million people who have this phone lining up to return it because it won't make phone calls. There seem to be a lot of satisfied iPhone 4 owners out there

Originally Posted by blairh

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Do you really think Apple would give everyone a case if this wasn't truly an issue?

Again, I'm not denying that there's a spot that will lower reception. I just don't think most users care. If the phone gets better reception than the previous phones, except if you hold it touching 1 spot, I don't think people care. So no, I don't think Apple gave everyone a case because they know their phone is "severely flawed" and it's the only way to make it work. It was just a PR move.

Originally Posted by blairh

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They wouldn't, and despite what Steve wants you to think, the iPhone 4 is a flawed piece of hardware. But Apple will never admit that.

What do you want them to say? Steve Jobs pointed out that if you hold it in a certain spot, you get a degraded signal. How is that a denial?

Originally Posted by blairh

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If it doesn't affect your everyday life, awesome, but understand the facts and what is really going on here. If anything it's Apple that wants to tell you the phone is perfectly fine and it's been blow out of proportion, but in actuality it is the media that is bringing the truth to the surface. You have it completely backwards.

How do I have it backwards? How do I not understand the facts? The facts are extremely simple:
1. the phone seems to get better reception than the previous iPhones, unless you hold it in a certain spot (see various reviews like NYT, anandtech, etc).
2. if you hold it in this spot, you're signal can go down by 20-24db, which in areas of poor reception can mean you basically go to zero signal.
3. Apple has sold around 3 million iPhone 4s, and they do not have 3 million people lining up to return it

What facts am I missing? I have one, I like it. If anything, you're trying to convince me that I shouldn't like it. So instead of you asking me why I care so much to respond to your posts (which I already said I didn't even realize I was doing), maybe I should be asking you why you care so much that I am actually happy with my iPhone? Why are you trying to convince me that my phone is so flawed?

If, like you said, you're going to get one even though it's so flawed, you might also realize that it actually works pretty well and that this antenna thing isn't anything to get worked up about

Originally Posted by scb

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I don't know why I'm offending you so much that you feel the need to call me out like this, but ok, I'll bite. You're absolutely correct when you say I didn't particularly pay attention when I posted in this thread. I had no idea that both of my responses were directed towards the same person (you). I came in to see what was being said and I responded. I think a lot of people probably post in many threads in the same way. I simply thought I'd share that my real-world experience with what you're telling me is a "severey flawed product" is in fact quite the opposite.
The first time you replied you didn't even realize I said I was getting the phone and made a remark simply based on the negative (yet true) things I wrote about the phone. And then you essentially did it again. So yes, you might want to see who exactly you are replying to, and maybe think twice about coming into this thread every other page to say "mine works". I mean, you can do that all you want, but it looks especially stupid when you say it twice to the same person.

Originally Posted by scb

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While the media is telling me my phone has horrible reception, and while you're telling me that it is "severly flawed," my phone is working fine, and actually giving me better reception than my iPhone 3g had, especially in poor coverage areas. So, no, it's not that Steve Jobs wants me to think that the media is blowing this out of proportion. That's my own personal opinion after using this phone for almost a month.
The media is not telling you you have horrible reception. I'm not telling you you have horrible reception. Please stop making **** up. When a portion of your cell phone cannot be covered by your finger because you are in a low cell area, then yes, you have a serious ******* problem on your hand. Telling me how awesome your reception is has nothing to do with this fact. And yes, Steve Jobs wants the media to think this issue has been blown out of proportion. You clearly did not watch the keynote if you are saying otherwise. You are using a very general proclamation "hey, my phone has been great for a month" when in reality the things I have been writing about have to do with the hardware problem this phone has. And yes, it's a problem. And in order to fix said problem you will have to wrap a case around your phone to ensure your phone to work properly 100% (even in low coverage). And you cannot dispute that fact. How do you not understand that people having to worry about touching the lower left hand side of their phone in low coverage is an issue?

Originally Posted by scb

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Sure, if someone holds the phone and bridges the antennas. The iPhone is not the only phone that works this way. One of the Droid phones user manuals even says (and i'm paraphrasing here) "don't touch this spot if you want good reception." So while I don't deny that this issue exists, I don't see the 3 million people who have this phone lining up to return it because it won't make phone calls. There seem to be a lot of satisfied iPhone 4 owners out there.
I wrote this before, you either didn't read it or didn't care or are ignoring it. All those phones that Steve showed in the keynote, they all have their antennas inside the phone and on the back (bottom or top). We do not push our hands up against the backs of our phones. We make a cupping motion with our hand using our fingers and palm. So it's a non issue while holding those phones, despite the vids. But on the iPhone 4 the antenna is external and it is very simple to cover "the dreaded spot" because it's in the lower left corner, an area most of us touch commonly while holding our cell phones.

Originally Posted by scb

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Again, I'm not denying that there's a spot that will lower reception. I just don't think most users care. If the phone gets better reception than the previous phones, except if you hold it touching 1 spot, I don't think people care. So no, I don't think Apple gave everyone a case because they know their phone is "severely flawed" and it's the only way to make it work. It was just a PR move.
Don't think most users care? If users didn't care then Apple wouldn't have had the press conference in the first place. Go look at MacRumors and Apple's forums, combined with all the iPhone 4 owners that took the time to upload videos on Youtube showcasing the problem. Yes, users care very much. And don't quote me that ridiclous number stated by Jobs about people calling Applecare. That does not take into account all the people posting their frustrations on forums, people visiting Apple retail stores in person complaining, and people simply holding off for weeks now when a fix was rumored online to come. If this was just tech blogs making a stink then Apple would have just released a letter on their site. They realized that *********** up, and instead of admitting it they are hiding behind the "many cell phones do this" argument in order to avoid a recall or action beyond giving out free cases.

Originally Posted by scb

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What do you want them to say? Steve Jobs pointed out that if you hold it in a certain spot, you get a degraded signal. How is that a denial?
I didn't want them to say anything different. I never said they should. My point is they made a hardware mistake and they will not and cannot admit it. Fine. I never expected Steve to admit that to the public. It would mean a recall and they were never going to do that. But the way Steve was trying to project to the media that this issue wasn't a big deal is preposterous. I linked to two excellent posts that break down exactly why this ridiculous on Apple's part in a previous post a few pages back. If you don't care to read those and understand why Apple looks like assholes here that's your prerogative.

Originally Posted by scb

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How do I have it backwards? How do I not understand the facts? The facts are extremely simple: 1. the phone seems to get better reception than the previous iPhones, unless you hold it in a certain spot (see various reviews like NYT, anandtech, etc). 2. if you hold it in this spot, you're signal can go down by 20-24db, which in areas of poor reception can mean you basically go to zero signal. 3. Apple has sold around 3 million iPhone 4s, and they do not have 3 million people lining up to return it What facts am I missing? I have one, I like it. If anything, you're trying to convince me that I shouldn't like it. So instead of you asking me why I care so much to respond to your posts (which I already said I didn't even realize I was doing), maybe I should be asking you why you care so much that I am actually happy with my iPhone? Why are you trying to convince me that my phone is so flawed?
Your logic is flawed because you stated that the media was trying to make this issue into a bigger deal than what it really was, but instead the truth is that Apple was trying to play it off as not a big deal. That's my point. That's what you have completely backwards. How many times do I have to tell you I hope you like your phone? I just ******* ordered one. Doesn't that say everything? My point is, prior to this exchange with you, everything that I've stated about the iPhone 4 is completely true and accurate, and you come in here essentially blowing it off and saying "well, I love mine, works well." Which is great and all, but completely missing the ******* point. And the reason I got mad is because you did it twice. In fact the first time I got annoyed because you clearly were just rushing to defend the phone despite what I initially stated was true (and I even stated then that I was going to get one). Then you had to come back and again state "mine works" when again what I was writing was 100% true and part of an ongoing discussion I've been having here with other SF members.

Originally Posted by scb

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If, like you said, you're going to get one even though it's so flawed, you might also realize that it actually works pretty well and that this antenna thing isn't anything to get worked up about
I have no doubts it will work well. That's not the point. The point is that Apple made a mistake, a mistake you and I can live with, but coming in dismissing it entirely and stating "hey, mine works" to the same person twice is ridiculous. The first time your comment clearly missed the fact that I said I was getting the phone and went straight to the fact that I said something negative about the phone itself (yet entirely true). The second time you again felt the need to say your phone worked well (general statement) yet you were replying to the same person. Maybe next time you can look up and see who exactly you are responding to instead of just reading negative words and rushing to reply. Or you can continue the current pattern, wait for a few pages to go by on this thread, and then reply to one of my statements with "you can hate this phone all you want, mine works." And to quote a review you previous mentioned (anandtech): The main downside to the iPhone 4 is the obvious lapse in Apple's engineering judgment. The fact that Apple didn't have the foresight to coat the stainless steel antenna band with even a fraction of an ounce worth of non-conductive material either tells us that Apple doesn't care or that it simply doesn't test thoroughly enough. The latter is a message we've seen a few times before with OS X issues, the iPhone 4 simply reinforces it. At the bare minimum Apple should give away its bumper case with every iPhone 4 sold. The best scenario is for Apple to coat the antenna and replace all existing phones with a revised model.The ideal situation is very costly for Apple but it is the right thing to do. Plus it's not like Apple doesn't have the resources to take care of its customers. Apple released a flawed phone and their mistake is embarrassing. As anandtech said they should have just coated the antenna in the first place. And their refusal to acknowledge their design mistake is laughable. But in the end if we have iPhone's that work for us it doesn't matter. But to think that antennagate was not valid or blown out of proportion is wrong and misinformed on your part. Nuff said.

wow, that's gotta represent what, at least an hour and a half of wasted productivity?