Cracking in vintage shell cordovan longwings?

Originally Posted by makewayhomer

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I've bought 2 pairs of Florsheim Shell Longwings and there were both awesome. At least comparable to current Alden and a whole lot cheaper than Aldens would be in the same condition.

Care to share who the seller was? A reliable seller of vintage shell longwings in excellent condition would sort of be a diamond in the rough -- at least if my experience is any guide. BTW, I'm not claiming you haven't found such a person at all. Rather, I'm asking for a rec if you remember the name. It would actually be very helpful.

JOA.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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Care to share who the seller was? A reliable seller of vintage shell longwings in excellent condition would sort of be a diamond in the rough -- at least if my experience is any guide. BTW, I'm not claiming you haven't found such a person at all. Rather, I'm asking for a rec if you remember the name. It would actually be very helpful.

One was from some random person who didn't know they were shell. The other was bought here from JOA. So I didn't buy both on ebay...but I don't really fully distinguish between ebay and sf sellers since there is a lot of overlap between the two

If you search for JOA posts you can find the ones I bought from him...and I recently sold the other pair here

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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I've probably bought 5 or 6 pairs of vintage Florsheims off of eBay, all from different sellers, and was disappointed in all of them. In my experience, the term "vintage" is applied willy nilly on eBay and rarely carries much specific meaning. The seller could be talking about a pair from the 60s, or he could be talking about a pair from 2001 or so. Second, the condition of the shoes is often a lot worse than is pictured or described. So-called "vintage" Florsheims are literally a dime a dozen on eBay. Finally, I don't recall ever suggesting that someone buy current Florsheims, either. But yeah, feel free to dismiss this advice as "terrible" and "misinformed." I'll accept the small/anecdotal sample size critique, but at the same time, I doubt you've bought more than that many pairs.
I have sold over 20 pair of vintage Florsheims over the last few years. I own 3 pair myself. I have never seen a pair crack and I have never had a customer contact me about them cracking. I have seen some junk, but I don't sell it. I think I have bought more than you mention. I could go through my photobucket and pull pics of at least 6 pair.

Originally Posted by rebel222

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I have sold over 20 pair of vintage Florsheims over the last few years. I own 3 pair myself. I have never seen a pair crack and I have never had a customer contact me about them cracking. I have seen some junk, but I don't sell it. I think I have bought more than you. I could go through my photobucket and pull pics of at least 6 pair.
Apologies, then, but you came off incredibly harsh and antagonistic in your first response to my post. You clearly have an emotional and financial investment in this discussion, so it might be hard to look beyond yourself and at the eBay vintage Florsheim market in general. But I assure you that you're one of the few exceptions that proves the rule. Crappy or misleadingly sold Florsheims are abundant on eBay, and if you've never encountered them, you've gotten lucky. I applaud you for doing honest business in that market on eBay, but do not kid yourself into thinking that everyone else does -- or even that most others do. To put it another way: when I buy 6 pairs on eBay from as many sellers, and 5 of those pairs crack or turn out to be recently-made CG passed/photographed off as "shell cordovan," it's more than a coincidence. It's a pattern. Either I'm the unluckiest SOB in eBay history, you're the luckiest, or the truth is somewhere in the middle of our two experiences. I'm willing to wager it's the latter.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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Apologies, then, but you came off incredibly harsh and antagonistic in your first response to my post. You clearly have an emotional and financial investment in this discussion, so it might be hard to look beyond yourself and at the eBay vintage Florsheim market in general. But I assure you that you're one of the few exceptions that proves the rule. Crappy or misleadingly sold Florsheims are abundant on eBay, and if you've never encountered them, you've gotten lucky. I applaud you for doing honest business in that market on eBay, but do not kid yourself into thinking that everyone else does -- or even that most others do.
Sorry if I came off harsh. I agree. There is junk out there; however, there are also incredible deals. I do have an interest in vintage Florsheims. However, I'm not messing with this much longer. I just strongly disagree with the statement that they are all old and worn out. The ratio of junk to good stuff is no different than any other used shoe. There are an equal proportion of worn out Aldens, AEs, or even EGs as there are to Vintage Florsheims. My point is that there is junk in used shoes. Its no different with vintage Florsheims.

Originally Posted by rebel222

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Sorry if I came off harsh. I agree. There is junk out there; however, there are also incredible deals. I do have an interest in vintage Florsheims. However, I'm not messing with this much longer.

I just strongly disagree with the statement that they are all old and worn out. The ratio of junk to good stuff is no different than any other used shoe. There are an equal proportion of worn out Aldens, AEs, or even EGs as there are to Vintage Florsheims.

My point is that there is junk in used shoes. Its no different with vintage Florsheims.

I never said they are "all" bad; I just said that, in my experience, enough are bad that I don't consider buying them on eBay to be a safe course of action. I'm speaking from a statistical standpoint and not an absolute standpoint. I don't deal in absolutes. I don't make "all" statements.

I don't doubt that there are incredible deals out there to be had, and if you're providing some of those deals, then more power to you. The world needs more sellers like you; that's for damned sure.

Nor, as I recall, did I make any particular statements about the ratio of junk-to-good Florsheims vs. any other brand. I simply talked about Florsheims as an example because someone else had brought it up. Had they spoken about Aldens, and had I a decent working experience base with buying used Aldens on eBay, I'd have chimed in about that market.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you are slightly missing what I am saying. There is no difference between any used shoes and used Florsheims. If your logic of "don't buy vintage Florsheims because there's junk out there," you should say "don't buy used shoes."

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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I never said they are "all" bad; I just said that, in my experience, enough are bad that I don't consider buying them on eBay to be a safe course of action. I'm speaking from a statistical standpoint and not an absolute standpoint. I don't deal in absolutes. I don't make "all" statements.

I feel like you're not doing your part as the buyer. it should be pretty clear from pictures and interaction w/ the seller the kind of shoes you're buying, and what kind of shape they are really in. if you don't do your due diligence than yeah I could see how it's easy to get burned.

enough well respected people on this forum have commented on the relative quality of 70's/80's Florsheims that I trust them, given the above caveat. once you understand their market value, you can often buy them with little or no risk.

Originally Posted by rebel222

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I understand what you're saying, but I think you are slightly missing what I am saying. There is no difference between any used shoes and used Florsheims. If your logic of "don't buy vintage Florsheims because there's junk out there," you should say "don't buy used shoes."
No, I'm not missing your point. You're missing mine. I'm not singling Florsheims out. You only think I am, which is not what I was trying to do. In fact, the first post I made on this thread was not to be "used old shoes" on eBay. I didn't even bring up Florsheims until someone else did. I thought I had just spelled that out, but I don't know how else to spell it out more clearly.

Originally Posted by makewayhomer

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I feel like you're not doing your part as the buyer. it should be pretty clear from pictures and interaction w/ the seller the kind of shoes you're buying, and what kind of shape they are really in. if you don't do your due diligence than yeah I could see how it's easy to get burned. enough well respected people on this forum have commented on the relative quality of 70's/80's Florsheims that I trust them, given the above caveat. once you understand their market value, you can often buy them with little or no risk.
My whole point was that sellers often misrepresent their items via photos or descriptions. It's not about "not doing diligence." It's about the fact that diligence only gets you so far if the seller is lying to you. What, do you think I just buy shoes on eBay without communicating with the seller or without looking at his photos or without looking at his feedback? Christ, I give up on even trying to make a point on this thread. If people aren't going to interpret what I'm saying correctly, there's no point in arguing with them. Rebel I can understand, given that he feels strongly about this issue as a seller. But you're just dense.

To summarize:

Vintage Florsheims, they're great shoes, in fact they compromise 98% of my "dressier" shoes. I have restored them from "holy crap why did you buy those" to "Those are really the same shoes?" many times. Great sellers (rebel222, a lot of other guys here and I hope myself!) know their product and don't sell junk. You can instantly tell crap Florsheims by the newer logo, creasing patterns, and fact that they are not made in America. Buy from a knowledgeable seller, learn about the product and you'll be fine almost every time. Don't forget to always ask for a plethora of pictures!

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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My whole point was that sellers often misrepresent their items via photos or descriptions. It's not about "not doing diligence." It's about the fact that diligence only gets you so far if the seller is lying to you. What, do you think I just buy shoes on eBay without communicating with the seller or without looking at his photos or without looking at his feedback?

well it seems you are much more easily tricked than I am b/c I havent had this problem! good luck in your future investigations Sherlock.

Originally Posted by makewayhomer

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well it seems you are much more easily tricked than I am b/c I havent had this problem! good luck in your future investigations Sherlock.
I have a pair of vintage new old stock Cole Haan shells that I bought in B&S. They have turned out to be the highest quality of all my shells. I love those shoes.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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So-called "vintage" Florsheims are literally a dime a dozen on eBay..
No, that would be figuratively. Great advice yet again by ArrogantB. No substitute for experience

Originally Posted by makewayhomer

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well it seems you are much more easily tricked than I am b/c I havent had this problem! good luck in your future investigations Sherlock.
I'd try to give you a Stats 101 lecture right about now, but *******, it would require a modicum of intellect on your part. I'll just leave it at that and say, yes, you're absolutely right. Your personal anecdotal experience is entirely indicative of eBay as a whole. I am just totally wrong and easily fooled and/or don't do my "diligence" when buying ****. Spot on.

Originally Posted by Coal_Mining_Polak

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You can instantly tell crap Florsheims by the newer logo, creasing patterns, and fact that they are not made in America. Buy from a knowledgeable seller, learn about the product and you'll be fine almost every time. Don't forget to always ask for a plethora of pictures!
I give up. It's like pissing into the wind here.

Originally Posted by Reevolving

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Great advice yet again by ArrogantB.

+1