Spanking

I think the concept of "time outs" almost deserves its own poll. Purely anecdotal, but to a child, the ones I see where "time out" is the preferred discipline of choice, you get bratty, misbehaved, spoiled little monsters that have no respect for adults, particularly their parents.

Originally Posted by HgaleK

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I'd just like to take a moment to call shenanigans. When they learn that there's no bite behind your bark, then they'll tell you to **** off and take the dessert, or steal your money and get their own dessert later that night. Grounding and other similar punishments take consent, which a pissed off kid isn't going to give.

+1

I can have my son go to his room, get me his favorite toy, and I can break it in front of him. why? because he knows that I will punish him worse if he doesn't comply with that punishment. a very very small amount of corporal punishment 5 years ago serves the purpose of showing that I will back up threats.

again, I hardly have to punish my son at all any more, but when I do, he understands that there is a threat behind it.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I think the concept of "time outs" almost deserves its own poll. Purely anecdotal, but to a child, the ones I see where "time out" is the preferred discipline of choice, you get bratty, misbehaved, spoiled little monsters that have no respect for adults, particularly their parents.
the only place timeouts work is here

Originally Posted by HgaleK

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I'd just like to take a moment to call shenanigans. When they learn that there's no bite behind your bark, then they'll tell you to **** off and take the dessert, or steal your money and get their own dessert later that night. Grounding and other similar punishments take consent, which a pissed off kid isn't going to give.

Most responses to my comment are similar to this. I am not saying if your 16 year old comes home high you should take his desert away. I am saying from the beginning one could have used the above methods instead of spanking to discipline kids and teach them their bad behavior will have negative consequences.

If your 16 year old is going to tell you to **** off and steal your money, he will. And if you try to spank him, he will hit you back. The only choice left for you will be to really get into a brawl with him and physically dominate him. Good luck with that and make sure you stay in good shape.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I think the concept of "time outs" almost deserves its own poll. Purely anecdotal, but to a child, the ones I see where "time out" is the preferred discipline of choice, you get bratty, misbehaved, spoiled little monsters that have no respect for adults, particularly their parents.
Timeouts work great especially for boys < 4 years old who have a lot of energy and want to move around. There is nothing they hate more than sitting quietly and doing nothing for 10 minutes.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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+1

I can have my son go to his room, get me his favorite toy, and I can break it in front of him. why? because he knows that I will punish him worse if he doesn't comply with that punishment. a very very small amount of corporal punishment 5 years ago serves the purpose of showing that I will back up threats.

again, I hardly have to punish my son at all any more, but when I do, he understands that there is a threat behind it.

What is the difference between telling your kid to fetch his favorite toy and giving it to you to break or else you will spank him vs. telling your kid you will break his favorite toy in front of him if he doesn't stop acting like a jackass? The threat is just as real, no?

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I think the concept of "time outs" almost deserves its own poll. Purely anecdotal, but to a child, the ones I see where "time out" is the preferred discipline of choice, you get bratty, misbehaved, spoiled little monsters that have no respect for adults, particularly their parents.

The issue is that timeouts have to be strictly enforced and make the kid miserable to be effective. Most parents just aren't willing to follow through and that's why it doesn't really work. There are times however, when the kids are REALLY young (say under 7) when timeouts are about the only thing that will work.

Disciplining properly without spanking is REALLY difficult and most parents who reject spanking do a damned poor job of it. It requires (for most people) extensive professional training and committment over a period of years to make it work. Many parents are unwilling to do that so they wind up with bratty kids.

The basic brain functions of pleasure seeking and pain avoidance really are the primary motivators, despite how "developed" we think we've become. Children are master manipulators and if they aren't controlled early, often and consistently will become little monsters.

Originally Posted by cross22

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Most responses to my comment are similar to this. I am not saying if your 16 year old comes home high you should take his desert away. I am saying from the beginning one could have used the above methods instead of spanking to discipline kids and teach them their bad behavior will have negative consequences.

If your 16 year old is going to tell you to **** off and steal your money, he will. And if you try to spank him, he will hit you back. The only choice left for you will be to really get into a brawl with him and physically dominate him. Good luck with that and make sure you stay in good shape.

I find this post a little funny, given that you have already shown you a) believe in and b) are a proponent of Pavlov. It also shows you have probably never trained an animal.

If you encode your physical dominance in someone from a young age (or any mammal, like a dog or horse), any normal 16 year old will have huge built in inhibitions from physically challenging you. It will not last forever but hopefully by the time the conditioning effectively wears off, they are a mature adult and physical challenges are not needed.

Originally Posted by cross22

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Most responses to my comment are similar to this. I am not saying if your 16 year old comes home high you should take his desert away. I am saying from the beginning one could have used the above methods instead of spanking to discipline kids and teach them their bad behavior will have negative consequences.

If your 16 year old is going to tell you to **** off and steal your money, he will. And if you try to spank him, he will hit you back. The only choice left for you will be to really get into a brawl with him and physically dominate him. Good luck with that and make sure you stay in good shape.

That's why you have to hit the gym everyday.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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+1

I can have my son go to his room, get me his favorite toy, and I can break it in front of him. why? because he knows that I will punish him worse if he doesn't comply with that punishment. a very very small amount of corporal punishment 5 years ago serves the purpose of showing that I will back up threats.

again, I hardly have to punish my son at all any more, but when I do, he understands that there is a threat behind it.

We had something like this early on, except it was a charity box. The favorite toy wasn't broken it was given to charity. We'd drop the box off at the donation center on Saturdays.

Originally Posted by Mark from Plano

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The issue is that timeouts have to be strictly enforced and make the kid miserable to be effective. Most parents just aren't willing to follow through and that's why it doesn't really work. There are times however, when the kids are REALLY young (say under 7) when timeouts are about the only thing that will work.

Disciplining properly without spanking is REALLY difficult and most parents who reject spanking do a damned poor job of it. It requires (for most people) extensive professional training and committment over a period of years to make it work. Many parents are unwilling to do that so they wind up with bratty kids.

The basic brain functions of pleasure seeking and pain avoidance really are the primary motivators, despite how "developed" we think we've become. Children are master manipulators and if they aren't controlled early, often and consistently will become little monsters.

Mark, I would agree that in theory "time out" should work. However, sort of like communism, I have yet to see a parental unit that uses it as an effective tool of discipline.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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+1

I can have my son go to his room, get me his favorite toy, and I can break it in front of him. why? because he knows that I will punish him worse if he doesn't comply with that punishment. a very very small amount of corporal punishment 5 years ago serves the purpose of showing that I will back up threats.

again, I hardly have to punish my son at all any more, but when I do, he understands that there is a threat behind it.

This is important, and why I make it a point to never bluff with ours. If I lay out consequences, then I follow them to the letter, or invite disrespect. I have to pick out the consequences carefully, though.

Originally Posted by DBoon

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I can't stand precocious children, but the adults who enable them are the worst

+10. I was in a store recently where a kid was being really loud and rude right next to me. I asked the kid to calm down and the father told me "obviously you don't have kids". It's the idea that it's acceptable to have your kid lose his **** and cause a scene and act as if though that's just what kids do that makes me want to beat the parent not the kid.

...

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Mark, I would agree that in theory "time out" should work. However, sort of like communism, I have yet to see a parental unit that uses it as an effective tool of discipline.
I remember in child psych class that I took as an undergrad, we spent 2 weeks discussing physical punishment vs. timeouts and their impact on the child's well being. The conclusion was that if time out is used, it has to be used consistently and immediately to be effective, no maybes and buts. However most parents tend to cave in after a short while and the kids tend to resort back into their bad behaviors later. But if spanking was used, kids will associate physical pain with bad behavior, and think twice before they will behave badly again.