Being well dressed and mannered when family isn't as much

Originally Posted by Blackhood

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I'm a penniless student living in the richest town in the UK...

Err...

Originally Posted by StephenStyle

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if(EnjoymentOfWearingClothes > ResultOfNegativeComments){ MensClothing}
else
{StreetwearAndDenim}

Most excellent. For practical purposes, you can lock the thread now.

But when has SF ever been practical? The OP raises an interesting philosophical question. What is the line between pretension and condescension? Condescension being, of course, just another kind of pretension.

Brooke Astor used to do a lot of philanthropic work which required her to visit a lot of deprived neighborhoods like Harlem and the Upper West Side. When asked why she didn't dress down for these visits, she said that people expected to see her in her pearls and white gloves and that dressing down would be condescending. No one thought her pretensious, however, because she talked with people not down to them.

This has interesting lesson for the OP's situation. There are two possibilities. It might well be that the family is uncomfortable and threatened by the OP's example. This is sadly common. It is often easier to pull people "down" to our level rather than come up to theirs.

It is also possible, on the other hand, that the OP comes across as a condescending prick. Quite likely, there is a bit of both going on here, which makes for an ugly combination.

Originally Posted by apropos

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If his family finds a jacket worn with jeans pretentious, should he limit his wardrobe because of that? Really?

Once again, it boils down to my original point - that it is not fair to be limited by limits others set for themselves.

You may have heard of black schoolchildren being called out on 'acting white' by their fellow (black) schoolchildren when they show an interest in academia. Something similar happens here in Australia within our Indigenous population. Should they limit themselves and use their intelligence to appear intellectually uncurious or stupid because their peers have limited themselves to that?

There is no misunderstanding, except perhaps on your part - 'manners' are a social construct that consider the feelings of all who partake in them, not the feelings of one.

You are also mixing up content with delivery and context. I can yell at someone that she's a *********, or I could gently take her aside and let her know that she has a weight problem and that it would be better for her health if she lost the excess weight. I do the latter on a daily basis as part of my job.

OTOH AFAIK the OP has not actually confronted his family with his views yet, I really don't see what you are whining about.

I completely agree. I don't see how the OP has been inconsiderate at all, quite the contrary. The OP is not trying to change anybody's style of dress, he would just like to wear what he feels comfortable and natural in, in a way that he can express how he feels.

If I was the OP I would just tell my family "This is what makes me happy, and I love you all so much; so it would mean the world to me if you would understand that I have my own style but I love you guys just the way you are."

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

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I hope this comes as clearer. I'm not one to insult ANYONE, and if I have to make a comment I try to be kind about it. I don't walk up to them and flaunt my suff. Here is an example:

When sitting for dinner, they stare at my plate and if there's nothing there, they start putting things on my plate and tell me that "I'm not eating" even after I've just eaten my fill. To me that's just rude but I don't say anything, but they get upset when I don't eat what they think I should be eating. Thats just an example of what I meant by manners. Now I keep quiet and do what I do normally but whether we're at a wedding or a simple gathering they say I'm too stuck up and even get "Don't try to act like you're not one of us" I just don't understand. I wasn't raised that way.
As for dress, well imagine a jogging suit being standard casual attire or dress pants with keys and a phone pouch attached at the belt wearing a jacket that reaches your knuckles with an unbuttoned shirt and a semi tied tie. So when I come in to a nice restaurant, they start asking questions, from why I have a pocket square to my jacket is too short because I'm showing sleeve. Or wearing loafers without socks. I see A LOT of socks with sandals in my community.

There is much more to it and I can't write it all out but I've been called "yuppie" or "elitisit" simply because I looked different than what they're used to. I don't criticize or try to educate them, it's not my place. But they tend to critique me as if I'm doing something wrong. Like I said, A corduroy jacket and jeans to them was me being dressed up.

PS Does caring about how I'm presenting myself to the world make me better than them? If so why is that wrong?

Sounds like you are in fact simply better than them. No need to apologize for it. When in Rome, dress better than the gd Romans.

Originally Posted by Nicola

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They put food in front of you? Bastards. Have you considered a gun?

Stay away from Italian girls. You'll have a nervous breakdown when their mothers,aunts,sisters,grandmothers,distant third cousins start putting eight helpings in front of you.

Originally Posted by Looch

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Sounds like you are in fact simply better than them. No need to apologize for it. When in Rome, dress better than the gd Romans.

When in Rome, take the first flight back to US! Just saying.

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

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I hope this comes as clearer. I'm not one to insult ANYONE, and if I have to make a comment I try to be kind about it. I don't walk up to them and flaunt my suff. Here is an example:

When sitting for dinner, they stare at my plate and if there's nothing there, they start putting things on my plate and tell me that "I'm not eating" even after I've just eaten my fill. To me that's just rude but I don't say anything, but they get upset when I don't eat what they think I should be eating. Thats just an example of what I meant by manners. Now I keep quiet and do what I do normally but whether we're at a wedding or a simple gathering they say I'm too stuck up and even get "Don't try to act like you're not one of us" I just don't understand. I wasn't raised that way.
As for dress, well imagine a jogging suit being standard casual attire or dress pants with keys and a phone pouch attached at the belt wearing a jacket that reaches your knuckles with an unbuttoned shirt and a semi tied tie. So when I come in to a nice restaurant, they start asking questions, from why I have a pocket square to my jacket is too short because I'm showing sleeve. Or wearing loafers without socks. I see A LOT of socks with sandals in my community.

There is much more to it and I can't write it all out but I've been called "yuppie" or "elitisit" simply because I looked different than what they're used to. I don't criticize or try to educate them, it's not my place. But they tend to critique me as if I'm doing something wrong. Like I said, A corduroy jacket and jeans to them was me being dressed up.

PS Does caring about how I'm presenting myself to the world make me better than them? If so why is that wrong?

How old are you that people talk to you that way? Also, what bumblefuck town do you live in? Grow some balls, where whatever you want; and treating people with respect doesn't imply that you have to let disrespect go unchecked.

The level of bloodshed achieved in this thread is disappointing.

I am going to move on elsewhere.



- B

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

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as to why my jacket is too short because I'm showing sleeve.

Now THIS is a problem!

Originally Posted by mkarim

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Now THIS is a problem!

The jacket sleeve length is always an interesting topic at gatherings but I just let it be. What strikes me is their attitude towards such things. Yellow gold is best, Anything made in Italy MUST be good (regardless of style or fit) and only have jewelry if you can show it and Black goes with everything so get that. We tend to emulate europeans when we dress, but neglect the knowledge that comes with it.

Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

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The jacket sleeve length is always an interesting topic at gatherings but I just let it be. What strikes me is their attitude towards such things. Yellow gold is best, Anything made in Italy MUST be good (regardless of style or fit) and only have jewelry if you can show it and Black goes with everything so get that. We tend to emulate europeans when we dress, but neglect the knowledge that comes with it.

I live in Atlanta, GA and know exactly what you mean!

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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The level of bloodshed achieved in this thread is disappointing.

I am going to move on elsewhere.



- B

It was slowly getting better...

Will personally come back later.

Originally Posted by lasbar

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It was slowly getting better...

Will personally come back later.

You make a convincing case.

I will come back later, too, after I've caught up on my Tweed in the City.


- B

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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You make a convincing case.

I will come back later, too, after I've caught up on my Tweed in the City.


- B

Shouldn't take long...

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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You make a convincing case.

I will come back later, too, after I've caught up on my Tweed in the City.


- B

You can also go on FNB after reading the two articles of Tweed in the city...

Originally Posted by lasbar

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You can also go on FNB...

Are you referring to the Chestnut Tree Cafà ?



I prefer better gin.


- B