On Pants

Originally Posted by GBR

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Yawn


I am not really sure that this homespun booklet would assist my cutter/tailor nor be of interest to a salesman trading in RTW trousers.

Neither. It is supposed to be for you, the customer. Your tailor should already know about these things. It is here so that if you see a flaw you can point out to them what is wrong where. That is all! BTW its not really "homespun". It comes from 3-4 very well written books on the topic.

Originally Posted by spertia

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Will there be a follow-up thread titled, "Off Pants?"

Umm no. What the title was supposed to mean was "On pants and their fit" as in "about pants". I put the current title in there and then realized if you don't make the connection it looks unsual

tutee, great post as usual

Originally Posted by spertia

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Will there be a follow-up thread titled, "Off Pants?"
that happens in dt

Originally Posted by srivats

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The "vintage" comment I can understand ... but please do post a picture of what you think is masculine. Seriously.

I avoid putting much elbow grease into my posts. What I consider effeminate about that guy's pants is the way they're waisted two inches below his chin.

These days, waists that high are seen mostly on women's skirts/dresses.

Not having a **** little strap on the back of the pants would also be more manly.

Tutee, thank you for taking the time to put together such and interesting and informative post. It's this sort of post that makes SF worth reading.

Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie

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I avoid putting much elbow grease into my posts. What I consider effeminate about that guy's pants is the way they're waisted two inches below his chin.

These days, waists that high are seen mostly on women's skirts/dresses.

Not having a **** little strap on the back of the pants would also be more manly.

Please go away.

..

Originally Posted by srivats

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... but please do post a picture of what you think is masculine. Seriously.

+1. Man up.

Originally Posted by philosophe

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Please go away.

I was asked a question, and I answered it. This is a forum. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by alliswell

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You chose not to discuss how to cut a pattern so that pockets lie flat, (my guess is added fullness at the back on the horizontal line of the hips)
Yes thank you for pointing that. There are always a few things here and there that will be left behind due to the comprehensive nature of this subject. Re: pockets laying flat issue. I have never struggled with this issue so I have been a bit less keen on it. However, based on what I have seen the leading cause of open side pockets on pants is tightness in front (upper panel) around the thigh region. It is about 8-10" below the waist line depending on wearer's height and width of his thighs. The hips can cause this also if the back (under) panel is tight but that is secondary usually. Of course added fullness at waist certainly helps with this issue but not always.

Originally Posted by alliswell

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You buried the lede on vox's bow legs - a common complaint among the physically fit
Sorry not sure about what you meant

Originally Posted by T4phage

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that happens in dt
Ah! Just the person I wanted to see. I know you don't share pictures of you online but would you be kind enough to share your trouser experiences and fit? How long did it took to get them perfect with all balance issues resolved and if not, then why? You neglected the issues, the tailor did or both? If you are shy about sharing then I guess you can make some general comments about what you have observed in your travels. I was hoping to get 12 good samples/pics of various pants styles that fit well but looking the current situation I would settle for maybe 2-3 more. Plus I don't want to make vox look silly for contributing alone either. I want to keep him encouraged

Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie

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I avoid putting much elbow grease into my posts.
If by 'elbow grease' you actually mean thought, then...

Originally Posted by tutee

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.......
Ah! Just the person I wanted to see....

[sane]

I don't have any photos specifically of trouser fits unfortunately... and my knowledge regarding fits are meager compared to yours and my vocabulary and description are not to precise. I choose the 'fit' (eg. rise, width at knee/opening) depending on the fabric and utility of the trousers. Slightly wider legs for suits and slimmer for casual - but not always.

The way I would like trousers to fit is basically how you explained it in your first post. A nice line at the front and back, with a slight break at the bottom, and not to have any pulls/creases when standing. Of course it has to be comfortable without excessive restriction on movement or when sitting. The other faults that you have outlined I have not really paid attention to. Usually when I have a fitting, I wear the coat and trousers around the sartoria for awhile to gauge comfort before the tailor/pantmaker checks it again for any issues that I may not have seen.

When I've worked with one man tailors (those who make the coat and trousers themselves) or a tailoring house it can take up to 2 trousers to get the fit as I want them to look. Usually tweaks are made after I've worn the first pair and I've noticed some things I would like to change. Afterwards one fitting is sufficient to get my fit correct. With dedicated trousermakers, usually they get the fit I would like by the first trousers, and smaller tweaks to subsequent orders. This process is sometimes repeated when I choose a different style and fit of trousers.


Here are some photos that I've posted here showing trousers. The shadow chalkstripe was basically finished except for shortening.



[/sane]

Originally Posted by T4phage

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[sane]

I don't have any photos specifically of trouser fits unfortunately... and my knowledge regarding fits are meager compared to yours and my vocabulary and description are not to precise. I choose the 'fit' (eg. rise, width at knee/opening) depending on the fabric and utility of the trousers. Slightly wider legs for suits and slimmer for casual - but not always.

The way I would like trousers to fit is basically how you explained it in your first post. A nice line at the front and back, with a slight break at the bottom, and not to have any pulls/creases when standing. Of course it has to be comfortable without excessive restriction on movement or when sitting. The other faults that you have outlined I have not really paid attention to. Usually when I have a fitting, I wear the coat and trousers around the sartoria for awhile to gauge comfort before the tailor/pantmaker checks it again for any issues that I may not have seen.

When I've worked with one man tailors (those who make the coat and trousers themselves) or a tailoring house it can take up to 2 trousers to get the fit as I want them to look. Usually tweaks are made after I've worn the first pair and I've noticed some things I would like to change. Afterwards one fitting is sufficient to get my fit correct. With dedicated trousermakers, usually they get the fit I would like by the first trousers, and smaller tweaks to subsequent orders. This process is sometimes repeated when I choose a different style and fit of trousers.


Here are some photos that I've posted here showing trousers. The shadow chalkstripe was basically finished except for shortening.

[/sane]

Try forward pleats like in the OP. Those will create a much cleaner line at the front.

Originally Posted by apropos

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If by 'elbow grease' you actually mean thought, then...


Disagreeing with an assessment is not grounds for labeling it thoughtless. I've explained each of my assessments.

Some people don't know how to handle themselves when confronted with differing opinions...

Originally Posted by tutee

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...

Sorry not sure about what you meant

The photo you have of Vox shows the crease line falling inside the line of his foot - something that happens to the bow legged too.

Originally Posted by alliswell

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The photo you have of Vox shows the crease line falling inside the line of his foot - something that happens to the bow legged too.

Neah...I'm just standing in that shot with my feet pointing bit outward rather than straighter ahead. C'est la vie.

My legs are as straight as Doric columns.


- B