Poll: Attolini vs. Rubinacci vs. Steed

Originally Posted by lasbar

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With Italians (even famous bespoke tailors) giving them the impression that you know what you are talking about is KEY to getting proper service--it's their cultural mentality, and though they will not admit it, it runs too deep to be ignored.

I think some of these tailors probably could not be arsed to service people who are ignorant and cannot appreciate the good work that goes into a garment. I can see their point of view, but it sucks as a customer.

Originally Posted by kolecho

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I think some of these tailors probably could not be arsed to service people who are ignorant and cannot appreciate the good work that goes into a garment. I can see their point of view, but it sucks as a customer.
..

It is why I'm secretely laughing at people who are telling me they only have to speak English to be understood around the world and therefore do not need to learn anything else..

To be understood yes, to be liked not really ..Most people are by nature lazy and are seeing speaking English as an annoyance or just at best a difficult task...
The language barrier is an obvious problem in establishing a working relationship with somebody and tailoring is not different regarding that particular matter.

I have been served very well in Italy(except Rome) because i made the effort to speak their language..
It is something the Italians,French and Spanish are very sensitive to...

Originally Posted by EBugatti

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But it is a definite factor in Italy, unfortunately.

This doesn't have to be Italy. I could happen anywhere, plenty of examples in NYC.

Another poster whose experiences are like Montesquieu's is Whnay. I wonder who he will settle with.

- M

Originally Posted by mmkn

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This doesn't have to be Italy. I could happen anywhere, plenty of examples in NYC.

Another poster whose experiences are like Montesquieu's is Whnay. I wonder who he will settle with.

- M
Huh? I am not sure whnay has indicated anything close to what you attempt to read into his posts.

Originally Posted by EBugatti

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As a client of the great Neapolitan tailors, and a native Italian speaker, I can tell you going to get fitted by yourself (as I assume you did), not speaking Italian (as you note), and most likely giving off the impression you were a neophyte was probably not advantageous. With Italians (even famous bespoke tailors) giving them the impression that you know what you are talking about is KEY to getting proper service--it's their cultural mentality, and though they will not admit it, it runs too deep to be ignored. This is not so much the case in the UK. But it is a definite factor in Italy, unfortunately.

Really? Granted, I've never spent time in the UK, but I think the phenomenon you're describing applies in equal parts to merchants everywhere, not just tailors in Italy.

All I can say is that I don't think I was ripped off in Naples, I don't speak Italian, and I'm as much a neophyte as Montesquieu. The main difference between us was our rate and mode of consumption. It shouldn't surprise if the quality of results differ.

Originally Posted by Montesquieu

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I was caught up in the adventure of experimentation, enjoying the diversity of styles, in love with the fabrics, appreciating the experts with whom I interacted, and running short of time to replace everything before returning to the US, where nothing has ever fit me. So I'm left with kinks that, relative to what I had RTW, seem lovable in comparison. I'm sufficiently happy with all but one order. They express me well. Perfection may not yet have been reached, but it's proximity is close enough for happiness and far enough for motivation.

I understand what you're saying. I loved my first jacket the most, even though it is probably the most imperfect. As you say, there is an element of romance and adventure to be found in the bespoke process. It's tragic when one doesn't allow himself to savor it.

Originally Posted by Montesquieu

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At work, I stretch and coach my team to achieve greatness. I didn't do that with my tailors, and they probably regard me as an enthusiastic but interchangeable client.

Well, I don't think you need to coach them--in fact, that sounds like the wrong approach. I'd deal with them like doctors. They are experts, yes, but the more transparent and open the patient, the easier it is for them to do their job right.

Originally Posted by kolecho

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I think some of these tailors probably could not be arsed to service people who are ignorant and cannot appreciate the good work that goes into a garment. I can see their point of view, but it sucks as a customer.

I don't doubt there are a lot of tailors as you describe--but I don't think you can reasonably draw that inference from Montesquieu's experience.

Originally Posted by mmkn

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Another poster whose experiences are like Montesquieu's is Whnay. I wonder who he will settle with.

How's that? Whnay's Rubinacci orders exhibit none of the problems we see here.

My man crush on grows stronger every day. Pretty soon I'm just going to buy him from his parents and dress him up as a teddy bear, like Paris Hilton did to Butters on South Park.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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Huh? I am not sure whnay has indicated anything close to what you attempt to read into his posts.

No incitement or excitement meant in my opinion. It is jut that, one consumer's opinion.

Whnay is very learned. Yet his Rubbinacci, to me, turned out more like Montesquieu's than yours or Mr. Fan's [or Cantabrigian].

Perhaps had Whnay had the same path to Mariano Rubinacci [which he has concluded as the way to go] as Mr. Fan's via you, then his end products would be more like Mr. Fan's and yours.

Neither of them seem as comfortable with the Italian language as you.

I am still pondering the difference between Vox's and Montesquieu's Steeds. I am assuming that they are both Edwin's [and not Vox = Edwin and Montesquieu = Edwin's son].

If they are both Edwin, then there must be something real to the fact that some customer match better with some maker than others, and vice versa.

Call it luck, call it spontaneous agreement, call it compatibility, but it is sure nice to see when it does occur - as in Vox and Steed, you/Mr. Fan and Rubinacci, AY/Fred and Mahon, Yatchie and Despos, and MM and Antonio Liverano.

Great place to see and learn, that's all.

- M

Originally Posted by mmkn

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I am still pondering the difference between Vox's and Montesquieu's Steeds. I am assuming that they are both Edwin's [and not Vox = Edwin and Montesquieu = Edwin's son].

If they are both Edwin, then there must be something real to the fact that some customer match better with some maker than others, and vice versa.

I think it's more of the combination of Vox having used Steed for around a decade and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a different cutter/sewer for the two guys. Some of Monty's Steed's seem a bit sharp and stylized, but by no means do I think they deserve some of the criticism that's been leveled at them.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Really? Granted, I've never spent time in the UK, but I think the phenomenon you're describing applies in equal parts to merchants everywhere, not just tailors in Italy.

The difference is the following: in Italy in particular there is the notion of the "cliente"--someone who knows the tailors, has been going to them for years (and families for generations), is referred, is someone of note, and/or is someone with apparent impeccable standards--that drives level of service. It is for this class of individual that the highest effort is made. If you're new/unknown etc. you are not a "cliente". The UK--take Steed as an example--have been more judiciously trying to bring the concept of bespoke to wider audience; hence, this Italianate approach would clearly miss the mark entirely. There are forces in Italy that try to combat this, but this attitude is still quite pervasive.

Italians, in fact, can sometimes seem to be ambivalent or indifferent about new customers. Take Ferrari--go try to buy a new one if you've never owned one...

Just to clear the air. I've been nothing but pleased with the garments I've received from Rubinacci. Although I've been lazy to photograph recent commissions, they have gotten better with time and experience (e.g. - my second DB is fits better than the first). I think other customers who have used the same tailor for a while, be it Rubinacci or Steed or Huntsman, would agree. My advice, however, to deal directly with Mariano and Gennarro in Naples for fittings still stands. I'm convinced that the minor issues I've had with my first order would have been easily dealt with by dealing directly with the mothership. My lack of speaking Italian hasn't got in the way from good service and well made garments.

Originally Posted by whnay.

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Just to clear the air. I've been nothing but pleased with the garments I've received from Rubinacci. Although I've been lazy to photograph recent commissions, they have gotten better with time and experience (e.g. - my second DB is fits better than the first). I think other customers who have used the same tailor for a while, be it Rubinacci or Steed or Huntsman, would agree. My advice, however, to deal directly with Mariano and Gennaro in Naples for fittings still stands. I'm convinced that the minor issues I've had with my first order would have been easily dealt with by dealing directly with the mothership. My lack of speaking Italian hasn't got in the way from good service and well made garments.

(FTFY--"Gennaro" has one "r")

Again, you're proving my point: you say your suits "have gotten better with time and experience" and you advise to "deal directly with Mariano..."; as a returning customer, you are no longer "new" and dealing with the owner (so you are remembered) is always helpful. You are building your position as a cliente. It is just easier if you go with someone who is already a cliente. That's all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by EBugatti

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(FTFY--"Gennaro" has one "r")

Again, you're proving my point: you say your suits "have gotten better with time and experience" and you advise to "deal directly with Mariano..."; as a returning customer, you are no longer "new" and dealing with the owner (so you are remembered) is always helpful. You are building your position as a cliente. It is just easier if you go with someone who is already a cliente. That's all I'm saying.

I wasn't responding to you and I've never doubted your "point".

Originally Posted by George

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You need some/more structure in your shoulders. With your build you can't carry an unpadded/lightly padded shoulder. It makes the tailoring look sloppy.

I am going to second this point. A lot of your stuff looks good, but I do think your right shoulder could use some attention. The really soft shoulders call too much attention to it. My two cents really.

Originally Posted by whnay.

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recent commissions, they have gotten better with time and experience (e.g. - my second DB is fits better than the first).

Are you continuing with A&S as well?

- M

Originally Posted by mmkn

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Are you continuing with A&S as well?

- M

Yes