• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Status
Not open for further replies.

vbuskirk

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
214
Reaction score
2
cowbell.gif



IWC rose gold rocks. Found myself strapped to this one for a short time today.
IMG_0163.jpg
 

acidboy

Stylish Dinosaur
Spamminator Moderator
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
19,672
Reaction score
1,555
Originally Posted by gdl203
**** nay for me. Don't like that dial color combination and hate that red 60 with a vengeance. Let's see what other dial/metal combos they will come up with (+ the 7 or 8 limited editions of course)

then I guess the Port Yacht Club won't be in your watchbox anytime soon.
laugh.gif

iwcyacht1.jpg


more sihh/basel pron, for discussion:

Longines Lindbergh's Atlantic Voyage Watch
long47l.JPG


Girard-Perregaux Quartz Laureato (aka- GP Royal Oak
laugh.gif
)
laureaq.JPG


Girard-Perregaux for Ermenegildo Zegna
zegnagp.jpg


Glashütte Original Senator Sixties Panorama Date
frown.gif
a step down from the first GO sixties imo
Senator_Sixties_Panorama_Date_1.jpg


Jaeger-LeCoultre Duometre a Quantieme Lunaire
jlc381.jpg


Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Traditionnelle Chronograph
1141b.jpg
 

Ahriman4891

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by gazman70k
In Mafoo's post, he views the Lang und Heyne Calibre 1 as a Unitas movement. However, as you said, Lang und Heyne actually refashions and/or remake almost all of the base components of the Unitas ebauche, including the screws. My view is that the Calibre 1 has so many of its components changed that its no longer a Unitas. By this logic, JC Biver has argued that Hublot's 7750 base calibre is in-house (especially the magnesium alloy ones) as the majority of the 7750 ebauche has also been replaced.
What constitutes a movement? The engineering thought that went into it or the superficial features? Perlage/blued screws/platinum strip on the edge of the rotor are not watchmaking, they are more in the jeweller's art category. Basically, if I take a poem, and rewrite each verse in a different fancy font (that may even add to the emotion of a particular verse), addinig miniature illustrations here and there, would I be justified to say I authored a poem? Did I put any thought into creating poetry? JMO: it's a Unitas. A pimped one, where the pimpage may be considered a form of art by itself, but still a Unitas. Nothing wrong with that.
smile.gif
 

gazman70k

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
747
Originally Posted by Ahriman4891
What constitutes a movement? The engineering thought that went into it or the superficial features? Perlage/blued screws/platinum strip on the edge of the rotor are not watchmaking, they are more in the jeweller's art category. Basically, if I take a poem, and rewrite each verse in a different fancy font (that may even add to the emotion of a particular verse), addinig miniature illustrations here and there, would I be justified to say I authored a poem? Did I put any thought into creating poetry?

JMO: it's a Unitas. A pimped one, where the pimpage may be considered a form of art by itself, but still a Unitas. Nothing wrong with that.
smile.gif



Basically, if I take a poem, and rewrite each verse in a different fancy font (that may even add to the emotion of a particular verse), addinig miniature illustrations here and there, would I be justified to say I authored a poem?


I would argue that you have given the poem emphasis that may differ to that of the original author. Depending on the emphasis, especially as you mention giving emotion to a particular verse, you may change the overall essence of the poem, thus creating a different interpretation. It is your creativity nonetheless. But let's not get carried away by it as here lies the paradox offered by the Ship of Theseus. Philosophers have been debating this since ancient Greece. I don't think Styleforum is the right place to discuss this.
boxing[1].gif


Regardless, we should be able to agree that the Unitas represents a universal, if not classical, execution of a robust manual winding movement that is efficient in design but yet flexible enough for modification. It is the master stock, if you will, of manual winding movements and in the hands of a skilled watch maker, can become something more than it is. I assert that what Lang und Heyne has done to the humble Unitas elevates it to haute horlogerie.

Here's the calibre IV which has been enhanced with a monopusher column-wheel chorograph module.

standard.jpg


Note the big chronograph wheel, with its phenomenal 200 teeth!

Another example is what Kari Voutilainen has done to vintage Perseus movement:

large-5-261.jpg


See this wonderful post by Felipe Jordao: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...rt=0&rid=24122

You wrote that "Perlage/blued screws/platinum strip on the edge of the rotor are not watchmaking, they are more in the jeweller's art category". How would you categorise Kari Voutilainen, Philip Dufour, Roger Smith and Romain Gauthier then? Are they just mere jewellers?


Gaz
 

Ahriman4891

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by gazman70k
See this wonderful post by Felipe Jordao: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...rt=0&rid=24122
Thanks for the link, good read.
You wrote that "Perlage/blued screws/platinum strip on the edge of the rotor are not watchmaking, they are more in the jeweller's art category". How would you categorise Kari Voutilainen, Philip Dufour, Roger Smith and Romain Gauthier then? Are they just mere jewellers? Gaz
Why "mere" jewellers?
tounge.gif
I see no reason why some jewellers cannot be considered artists. IMHO, a watchmaker is someone like Breguet or Daniels, who actually moves horology forward. I don't see e.g. Kari Voutilainen as belonging in the same category, with all due respect to him. I would call these gentlemen "tuners", similar to performance car tuners. [warning, another bad analogy!] E.g. Hennessey can tune your Corvette, and he is apparently really good at it, but he is no Adrian Newey. I am honestly not trying to insult either Hennessey or Voutilainen
smile.gif
they do what they like doing and enjoy success at it -- kudos and more power to them.
 

maomao1980

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,719
Reaction score
106
All this tech talk is confusing me, I thought a watch is supposed to do just one of the two things: tell time, or say f**k you.
 

GuidoWongolini

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
5,309
Reaction score
547
Originally Posted by maomao1980
All this tech talk is confusing me, I thought a watch is supposed to do just one of the two things: tell time, or say f**k you.
-
worship.gif
 

gazman70k

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
1,144
Reaction score
747
Originally Posted by Ahriman4891
Thanks for the link, good read. Why "mere" jewellers?
tounge.gif
I see no reason why some jewellers cannot be considered artists. IMHO, a watchmaker is someone like Breguet or Daniels, who actually moves horology forward. I don't see e.g. Kari Voutilainen as belonging in the same category, with all due respect to him. I would call these gentlemen "tuners", similar to performance car tuners. [warning, another bad analogy!] E.g. Hennessey can tune your Corvette, and he is apparently really good at it, but he is no Adrian Newey. I am honestly not trying to insult either Hennessey or Voutilainen
smile.gif
they do what they like doing and enjoy success at it -- kudos and more power to them.

I disagree with your definition of a watchmaker because you would then have to define what constitutes material advancements in horology. Your car engine tuning analogy is interesting (but not bad) since I would like to see you apply your advancement logic to car technology. Would everyone after Ford and Benz by just fine tuners of the internal combustion engine? Maybe you should consider me the village idiot and try explaining your point using sock puppets. FARK! I am beginning to sound like Mafoo.
 

gdl203

Purveyor of the Secret Sauce
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
45,602
Reaction score
54,386
Originally Posted by gazman70k
See this wonderful post by Felipe Jordao: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...rt=0&rid=24122

I would point out that the more open-minded and intelligent watch amateurs I know can appreciate haute horlogerie and unique independent watchmaking just as much as the value of a proven workhorse like Unitas. As a good example, Felipe himself also owns a PAM210
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,705
Reaction score
9,841
I don't have a problem with a Unitas or ETA workhouse ebauche. My point is that I don't really value the extensive ornamentation and re-crafting done to pretty them up. To a degree, I find it tasteless.

To me, watchmaking is fundamentally about engineering mechanical solutions, not decoration. Decoration is the icing on the cake. A Dornbluth is all icing--like a cheap, fused RTW suit, but with a fancy lining treatment, pick-stitching, and working buttonholes. Now, not to be too pejorative, Dornbluth might very well do some things to actually increase the efficiency and precision of the ebauches it uses--however, nobody can argue that the screwed gold chatons are anything but quasi-historical references, without any purpose other than pretentiousness. None of the major houses use them except for Lange, who is similarly desperate to establish a connection with the past. Patek and VC don't use them, and they probably never have in a wristwatch movement.

The IWC 5000-caliber movement is, in fact, as refined in finish as any Patek caliber. The difference is in the concept and style. IWC has never been known for highly ornate finishing. They've always been very technically oriented, so their finishing is intended to do two things: (1) increase functionality, and (2) convey a serious, precision-minded approach to watchmaking. So, you might not like the style of the finish, but you would be wrong to assume it is not done as carefully or as nicely because it is not as obviously ornate. See all the those unbeveled edged? Beveling can be pretty, but it is also easier to make look good. It takes very, very low manufacturing tolerances to keep the edges unbeveled, yet sharp and clean looking.

Also, I find value in a movement's provenance. The truth is, that is what most often distinguishes between one movement and another--not accuracy, or even precision. The IWC 5000, unlike the Dornbluth re-built Unitas, was designed and engineered from the ground up as an IWC movement to be used in IWC watches, in the tradition of IWC watchmaking, which represents the only watchmaking tradition to come out of the German-speaking region of Switzerland. Consider the value of a Ferrari engine. Much of its value stems from its Ferrari-ness, not its horsepower and torque numbers. The sound and feel of a Ferrari connects you to the place and culture that developed it. Would you feel differently if the engine were really a gussied-up Ford?

Anyway, I don't mean to be too hard on highly-decorated ebauches. My main point is that it's a mistake to confuse baroque decoration for refinement or quality.
 

gdl203

Purveyor of the Secret Sauce
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
45,602
Reaction score
54,386
That's a useless debate
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,705
Reaction score
9,841
Originally Posted by gdl203
That's a useless debate
Au contraire. It goes to the heart of why people continue to value mechanical watchmaking--and, thus, what makes one movement nicer than another. Some of us like fancy-looking things; others value things done very, very well within limiting parameters. I happen to fall into the latter camp.
 

gdl203

Purveyor of the Secret Sauce
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
45,602
Reaction score
54,386
No - it's completely useless and has been re-hashed a hundred times on WIS forums - waste of time. You're wrong, to cut to the chase. But enjoy your OneMovement
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 60 38.7%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 11.0%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 27 17.4%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 28 18.1%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,165
Messages
10,579,144
Members
223,885
Latest member
Jones&co
Top