How many meters did you row/erg today?

Originally Posted by Grayland

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The snow/ice on the roads in upstate NY take all of the fun out of running. Are you doing any weight training or just the intense cardio?

I stopped all weight training when I started trying to improve 2K erg times. It just adds fatigue, making me slower for no real benefit.

**** a c2 for $200, nice steal

Originally Posted by why

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I stopped all weight training when I started trying to improve 2K erg times. It just adds fatigue, making me slower for no real benefit.

Are you talking about the short term or long term? I feel like rowing pieces 500m to 3000m and doing some squats/cleans/whatever mixed together would be beneficial in the long term. What you're doing seems to be working well though, so might as well stick with it until a plateau.

Depending on how I feel I might do a 2k on Sat...

Originally Posted by jaydc7

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Are you talking about the short term or long term? I feel like rowing pieces 500m to 3000m and doing some squats/cleans/whatever mixed together would be beneficial in the long term.

Short and long-term are both one and the same if the weight training is as consistent as the rowing. I don't need strength itself -- if I can row 500m at 500w for instance but my average wattage for a 2K is 350w, then obviously I'm losing strength due to a lack of endurance (exhaustion of energy on a metabolic level). Maximal contractile strength of the muscles (i.e. one rep max, and even extending to 5 repetitions or so) has no bearing on an exercise which, contrastingly, has hundreds of repetitions and lasts a much more extended duration. The same energy systems aren't used and neural strength plays almost no role beyond the initial pull.

The primary benefit I could see being derived from weight training would be muscle hypertrophy. But since this new muscle will then need to be innervated and capillaries will need to form, I can't see the weight training itself providing much benefit. In other words, the actual increases in speed on the erg will come from, again, better training of the aerobic and anaerobic energy systems which will best be done on the erg itself. Weight training will induce hypertrophy much more effectively than rowing itself will, but if the muscle gain outpaces any possible 'honing' of that muscle on the erg then all is for naught anyway. In addition, larger muscles reduce efficiency of the aerobic and anaerobic energy systems because blood flow across the muscle is reduced -- it simply takes more time for the blood to travel across a larger muscle. Considering the capillary system itself likely provides the main source of energy carried in the hemoglobin, extra muscle mass becomes even more deleterious since blood tends to leak out of the capillaries into surrounding tissue, some of which is unutilized; the potential energy that was flowing to the depleted areas instead gets lost on the way.

All of this is also ignoring the differences in fiber types, which is a very gray area since little usable data or information exists.

All of the above assumes a sufficient strength level. It also ignores some aspects of maximal strength and endurance which I just thought of but don't have the time to post yet (gotta run).

Interesting and it seems to be working. I think that the initial pull is by far the most important part of the stroke, and in my personal experience I seemed benefit greatly from increasing my strength.

Run 1 mile
Row 1K @ 3:21
Row 1K @ 3:27
Row 2K @ 7:09
Run 1 mile home

500m @ 1:55
500m @ 1:53
1k @ 4:01
4k @ 16:37

Originally Posted by jaydc7

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Interesting and it seems to be working. I think that the initial pull is by far the most important part of the stroke, and in my personal experience I seemed benefit greatly from increasing my strength.

Agree. But also the end, at least in the water. The snap through the release is massively important.

Yea, I was just referring to the erg. It's funny how bad people who pull under 6:15 on the erg can be on the water...

Originally Posted by jaydc7

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Yea, I was just referring to the erg. It's funny how bad people who pull under 6:15 on the erg can be on the water...

I know exactly what you mean. As a lightweight I never approached 6:15, but lost seat races to people with significantly slower erg times than me. It was very very annoying.. eventually I found that it was because I was not accelerating through the release. Stupid physics and momentum and what not.

Seat racing is so miserable. I usually did pretty well, but it took me a long time to break my flip catch habit.

Any short (<30 minutes) workouts anyone can suggest I can throw in after my weights?

So one should set the erg at 5 to replicate water? Are the higher settings used for strength?

Why (the user) just curious what your background/profession is, seems like you have your sports/exercise physiology down pretty well.

I've been avoiding the erg to try and transition a bit for the track in two months or so. My torn tendon in my finger also stopped healing and I figured I'd better back off before scar tissue forms and screws up the joint.

But today I had to see how well I could do, and I pretty much stayed the same (predictably).

1K @ 3:24
1K @ 3:25

Originally Posted by NVtoNY

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Why (the user) just curious what your background/profession is, seems like you have your sports/exercise physiology down pretty well.

It's just a hobby now and gives me a different subject to think about from my usuals.

Question: what is the resistance supposed to be set at? I presume everyone is using the same right?

Answered in this thread. I think around setting 5-7.

Originally Posted by CunningSmeagol

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Question: what is the resistance supposed to be set at? I presume everyone is using the same right?

It depends on the person. Use the drag factor sensor (it's under 'Additional Tools' or something on the PM3) and get as range of around 110-140. Do a few tests to see which setting seems to be smoothest and produces the best times. A lot of people will yank on it at 10 for 500m and think that's their best setting (after all, we're all Hercules) but they're drained and can't finish a 2K.

I use setting 6-7, but my Concept2 in my gym is different from yours in your gym -- a lot of variables affect the flywheel resistance.

Anyway, contrary to what I should've done, I rowed again today to see if yesterday's rowing times were slowed a bit by neural detraining (i.e. I wasn't used to the rowing technique after about a week off). Predictably, today's times were better.

Drag factor 130 38spm
Run 1 mile
1K @ 3:19
2K @ 7:12 (my pant leg got caught on the rail )
Run 2 miles

After running timed miles this past week or so I've noticed how much more the erg uses the intercostals for breathing. When I run, my intercostals don't really have to do a whole lot of work and it makes exercising at a higher wattage a bit easier, but when I row my abdominals' contracting prevents them from assisting in breathing, and as a result my work output is reduced because of intercostal fatigue from expanding my ribcage to facilitate breathing.