Cars We Drive!

Originally Posted by The_Jar

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here's my 02 c5 corvette. 6speed. z51 suspension, and torch red interior

Looks great

Originally Posted by bawlin

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The driving experience is no less engaging than that of a 6-speed. You can feel the clutch engage, you can shift with a paddle or the stick... the only difference is you're not mashing a 3rd pedal with your left foot.

It's much less engaging - manipulating the 3rd pedal for smooth shifts, blipping the throttle on a downshift, heeling and toeing, those all take skill and practice, and that process takes more engagement - more feel, timing, and hand/eye/foot coordination - than working a pair of paddles. Car makers didn't develop these expensive and complicated systems because operating a clutch quickly and well is easy; these aids are there to compensate for a lack of skill among the customer base that's as interested in improving their driving skills with practice and training as they are in learning to do their own basic maintenance.

As for the "great debate" about manual v. automated - there isn't one, really. People are saying it's quicker and easier using SMG/DCT/PDK, etc, and myself and every other proponent of manuals has responded with a emphatic "well, duh!" They're better, they're faster, they're simpler and we all know it and acknowledge it - several times in this thread alone. We're just stating a preference.

Hmm, was not aware that this was the current big cawk threak....


Anyway, Pio, which MB are you stuffing your sausage into? Currently looking at one (won't say which as it hurts to type it, lets just say a "family vehicle") and it seems to take care of my interior space needs, seems to have some power but no idea about MB service or this model's mechanical history.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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Hmm, was not aware that this was the current big cawk threak....


Anyway, Pio, which MB are you stuffing your sausage into? Currently looking at one (won't say which as it hurts to type it, lets just say a "family vehicle") and it seems to take care of my interior space needs, seems to have some power but no idea about MB service or this model's mechanical history.

GL450 for me. FYI, it won MT's or C&D's (can't remember which) SUV of the year when it came out. They raved about it initially and decided to take one into their "long term" stable for long term review. They said they liked it even more a year down the road than when they named it SUV of the Year and that is was simply the most popular long term test car they'd ever had.

Engine is not like the 500hp Escalade, but it's not slow. Published 0-60 varies from 6.7 to 7. The mag that did the long term test reported that even loaded up with seven adults (which actually fit in the seats) it had plenty of power.

I did an overnight test drive, and it's a very comfortable vehicle to drive, with power and handling that make you think it is far smaller than it is. YMMV.

Originally Posted by epb

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It's much less engaging - manipulating the 3rd pedal for smooth shifts, blipping the throttle on a downshift, heeling and toeing, those all take skill and practice, and that process takes more engagement - more feel, timing, and hand/eye/foot coordination - than working a pair of paddles. Car makers didn't develop these expensive and complicated systems because operating a clutch quickly and well is easy; these aids are there to compensate for a lack of skill among the customer base that's as interested in improving their driving skills with practice and training as they are in learning to do their own basic maintenance.

You make it sound like you guys are a bunch of Ayrton Senna's. I somehow doubt that.

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Originally Posted by bawlin

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You make it sound like you guys are a bunch of Ayrton Senna's. I somehow doubt that.
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Inane comment. We enjoy the aspiration and the struggle and the success at our individual levels. This is same motivation and pleasure applies to any amateur who plays a sport or practices a hobby at less than the top 5% of professionals' level. Reductio ab asburdum.

Does anyone here have experience with a Cadillac CTS-V?

Originally Posted by Jbreen1

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Does anyone here have experience with a Cadillac CTS-V?

I have been in it around the track (passenger only). It was very impressive.

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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People who think, somehow, that shift times measured in milliseconds are slower than I can get my brain to start to move my arm and then move it an inch or two are perilously ill-informed. A Scuderia is what, 60ms or something? Some of the dual-clutch affairs are running sub 20ms these days.

On the one hand, I agree that the weak link in most people's driving isn't their shifting speed, however, shifting speed can make quite a measurable difference, even amongst skilled drivers. I've seen instrumentation data from two different drivers in the same car (a spec Miata) where a slightly slower shift on a long high-speed straight will lose you significant time. And the slower shift is still much faster than what people do on the street. I fully recognize that this is not an everyday street situation that we're talking about.

For everyday street driving, picking a manual or semiautomatic is about as consequential as the color of your shirt: it's not going to make a difference, so you may as well pick the one that makes you happy. Traffic is easier in a slushbox auto, but it's not the PITA some people make it out to be in a manual.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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You get to burn your clutch. Computer hates doing that, because the programmers say to it, "Dude...do not burn the clutch...high chance this rig is leased and our masters will own it down the line."

You don't like it, the launch control? Also, in the higher-speed modes of single-clutch semiautos (like SMG, not DCT), you can chew up gears and synchros because upshifts don't wait long enough for the gears to spin down before engaging them.

--Andre

I'm broke, I still drive my 2002 IS300, hardly sporty or professional. Saving for another car. =(

Originally Posted by hiisociety

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I'm broke, I still drive my 2002 IS300, hardly sporty or professional. Saving for another car. =(
They're nice cars.

i really enjoy operating this --- same color --- even in traffic

Originally Posted by A Y

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On the one hand, I agree that the weak link in most people's driving isn't their shifting speed, however, shifting speed can make quite a measurable difference, even amongst skilled drivers. I've seen instrumentation data from two different drivers in the same car (a spec Miata) where a slightly slower shift on a long high-speed straight will lose you significant time. And the slower shift is still much faster than what people do on the street. I fully recognize that this is not an everyday street situation that we're talking about. For everyday street driving, picking a manual or semiautomatic is about as consequential as the color of your shirt: it's not going to make a difference, so you may as well pick the one that makes you happy. Traffic is easier in a slushbox auto, but it's not the PITA some people make it out to be in a manual. --Andre
Yeah. I meant only to imply that I am way, way, way, slower than any top end auto. Not that shift speed is inconsequential, but that the difference between a 60ms and 20ms shift when, if I'm lucky, I'm at 300+ms, is really inconsequential to me. 40ms may really be inconsequential to most anyone I would presume -- when you say slightly slower, do you mean hundreds of ms order, or tens? ~ H

I drove the Scuderia and F430 on the track back-to-back, and the difference in shift speed was very noticeable. The Scuderia pwned the F430.

Originally Posted by zjpj83

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I drove the Scuderia and F430 on the track back-to-back, and the difference in shift speed was very noticeable. The Scuderia pwned the F430.
What is the shift speed of the 'standard' model? I would be more interested in the comparison if it was the same car that could be altered to shift at different speeds, as increased HP, other factors will affect subjective judgment.