Late Beethoven Thread

bach · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by ppllzz

i am playing the last mvmt of hammerklavier, such a terrible sounding song... cannot imagine anyone listening to it out of their own volition

Wrong answer. This threak is for gushing about erudite-sounding tunes from some dead guy.

imageWIS · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by A Y

I love op. 109, 110, 111. The Grosse Fugue is delightfully weird, like he got in a time machine and came back with all these new ideas:

The GroÃŸe Fuge is definitely from another world... it's from a period where I think Beethoven somehow saw the present, the future, the past, and the universe all at once and turned what he saw in his minds eye into an oft-misunderstood, yet sheer masterfully genius movement.

imageWIS · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by FiveFiveFive

That's like basing your opinion of the "Rach 3" off David Helfgott's recording.

Shudder

imageWIS · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by bach

Wrong answer. This threak is for gushing about erudite-sounding tunes from some dead guy.
You make it sound almost like a Conne thread without teh **** and teh geriatric female stage performers... which is frankly an insult to the OP, Manton.

Originally Posted by ppllzz

i am playing the last mvmt of hammerklavier, such a terrible sounding song... cannot imagine anyone listening to it out of their own volition
I'm not crazy about it either (although, I'll salute any pianist that can pull of its complicated technicality), I much prefer the presto agitato movement of No. 14.

Manton · Nov 5, 2009

You guys are dolts. I also mean that without rancor.

ppllzz · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by imageWIS

You make it sound almost like a Conne thread without teh **** and teh geriatric female stage performers... which is frankly an insult to the OP, Manton.

I'm not crazy about it either (although, I'll salute any pianist that can pull of its complicated technicality), I much prefer the presto agitato movement of No. 14.

you should refer to sonatas by op. # or nickname... no one really knows which sonata number they are...

that mvmt is kinda boring (and very easy to play)... i can only listen to so many arpeggios before my head breaks

imageWIS · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by ppllzz

you should refer to sonatas by op. # or nickname... no one really knows which sonata number they are...

I don't like calling it the 'Moonlight' and I thought it was rather obvious since you mentioned a piano sonata... but, ok I'll use Opus numbers next time.

Manton · Nov 5, 2009

Ahem. This the *Late* Beethoven thread.

Gutman · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by FiveFiveFive

I know you picked it by accident, but there's the problem -- the Norrington recording is a POS. Is it the one with the London Classical Players?

That's like basing your opinion of the "Rach 3" off David Helfgott's recording.

In a way, that is my point: if it take an orchestra "better" than Norrington and LCP to make it sound OK, then there is a problem. Great music should be able to survive a variety of different interpretations. Realisation is important, but a composition should still be OK "in the score".

Original instruments is not everyone's cup of tea, but after all it was what Beethoven was working with. The recording of 7th I have is Collegium Aureum, and I really like it. They were somewhat less "authentic" than other original instrument groups (a bit Harnoncourt-like), but I like their recordings, especially Handel Op6. Now there's some great music...

ppllzz · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by imageWIS

I don't like calling it the 'Moonlight' and I thought it was rather obvious since you mentioned a piano sonata... but, ok I'll use Opus numbers next time.

well i mean i knew it was sonata #14 but most people dont memorize which sonata # it is... you hafta say the opus number. just a suggestion i guess, i use to do what you did and know everything by sonata #, but my piano teacher told me that no one really does that...

Manton · Nov 5, 2009

Norrigton is a gimmick monger. Original metronome settings! Ooooh! It's really fast!

Blech. Sounds like a 33 played on 45.

Thomas · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by Manton

Hammerklavier, first movement:

Typical AB, AB' sonata form opening:

A Section -- B flat major section (opening themes); 1-44; 44 measures
B Section -- G major section (second groupd of themes); 45-125; 81 measures
*repeat*
A -- B flat major section (opening theme; identical); 44 measures
B' -- G major section (changed at the very end this time); 45-129; 85 measures

[[The above is about half the movement, timewise]]

C -- E flat major development section of main theme; sort of quasi-fugal; 130-192; 63 measures
D -- very short 8 measure interlude; C major (193-200)
E -- D major, picks up theme from B -- short section, only 12 measures (201-213)
F -- B major; recapitulates opening theme; also only 12 measures (214-226)
G -- Back to B flat major; restates first part of opening theme, then develops second part; lengthy quote from second part, still in B flat major formally, but chords modified with flats to change key sound; 39 measures (227-266)
H -- B minor, but a quote from the first (B flat major) theme; sounds rather sinister in this key; 6 measures (267-272)
I -- back again to B flat major; lengthy quites from the first G major section, but in this key; first quoted, then considerably developed; (273-405 [end]); 132 measures.

Ten key changes, and some of the most extraordinary choices imaginable. Look how short some of the sections are.

I know no one's commented on this, but I'm going to put on my Pollini disc and give it a good listen with this at hand. Thanks for posting this.

Manton · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by Thomas

I know no one's commented on this, but I'm going to put on my Pollini disc and give it a good listen with this at hand. Thanks for posting this.

If you don't have it, blow a few bucks on the score. I have the Dover edition of the complete sonatas. Very cheap.

imageWIS · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by Manton

Ahem. This the *Late* Beethoven thread.

8:56 pm is pretty late in Boca Raton

Thomas · Nov 5, 2009

Originally Posted by Manton

Ahem. This the *Late* Beethoven thread.

Originally Posted by imageWIS

8:56 pm is pretty late in Boca Raton

better than my "Beethoven's been Late for a few centuries now"

Late Beethoven Thread

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