Saddleback v. M&W Traveler

Originally Posted by imatlas

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No, it changes my perception of the integrity of the company. In this case, a company that touts its integrity (not to mention its religiosity) on its website. I care how the companies that I support behave in the world.
Brother of employee shills for company on internet message boards =/= me not getting a handsome satchel made of high quality materials.

Originally Posted by pandamonium

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Brother of employee shills for company on internet message boards =/= me not getting a handsome satchel made of high quality materials.

It's pretty trivial in the grand scheme, but it definitely impacts their credibility. ie what other claims that they make are bogus?

Originally Posted by imatlas

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It's pretty trivial in the grand scheme, but it definitely impacts their credibility. ie what other claims that they make are bogus?
I don't know, but what other claims matter that much? People on this forum and elsewhere have handled the bag, they know the quality, construction, etc., and they've also commented on the help they've received from the company when not satisfied. Tomorrow, if we find out the CEO drives a hybrid instead of a range rover, I should buy from them anymore? Sorry, but all I care about when buying a bag is quality and customer service, not the "story" behind the brand.

Yeah, this exchange went in a direction I didn't expect. I'm sorry it has gone the direction it has gone. I didn't mean for this to become an argument. I have to admit that it looks pretty bad that I said our company doesn't shill and then was confronted with a shill from my bro from a couple of years ago. There's really no explanation that's going to hold much merit at this point in time and I know that. I wouldn't have challenged anyone to give me an example of a shill if I had known that shill had happened or that it was done on the same forum we're discussing this issue on! I apologize.

Based on how this thread has gone, I really don't expect anyone to believe what I'm trying to communicate. We really don't shill. If we did in the past, I apologize. It won't happen again.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

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Yeah, this exchange went in a direction I didn't expect. I'm sorry it has gone the direction it has gone. I didn't mean for this to become an argument. I have to admit that it looks pretty bad that I said our company doesn't shill and then was confronted with a shill from my bro from a couple of years ago. There's really no explanation that's going to hold much merit at this point in time and I know that. I wouldn't have challenged anyone to give me an example of a shill if I had known that shill had happened or that it was done on the same forum we're discussing this issue on! I apologize.

Based on how this thread has gone, I really don't expect anyone to believe what I'm trying to communicate. We really don't shill. If we did in the past, I apologize. It won't happen again.

Don't worry about it too much. This thread is just one in a million. Tame by comparison actually.

Originally Posted by imatlas

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It's pretty trivial in the grand scheme, but it definitely impacts their credibility. ie what other claims that they make are bogus?

If it helps, I bought a saddleback bag 2 years ago after seeing an older model in person for the first time. The construction and quality of the leather is virtually unchanged. The only thing that I would consider a negative about the bag is the weight. It weighs a ton and I would imagine that if you have to walk a decent distant that it would become straining. It doesn't bother me because I don't do too much walking with the bag unless I'm at the airport.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

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Based on how this thread has gone, I really don't expect anyone to believe what I'm trying to communicate. We really don't shill. If we did in the past, I apologize. It won't happen again.

While I think AB is being overly strident and borderline douchey in this whole thing, and I could really give two ***** because I'd frankly rather have the other bag but am not in the market for either, the bolded statement is a bit facepalm-worthy.

Just thought I would weigh in here with my personal experience. I own a Saddleback Briefcase and have used it fulltime for almost three years. The thing looks brand new and has held up remarkably well. The fit, finish and materials used are all top notch, and I imagine that with proper care it will last a lifetime. If you like the look and can get past some the hyperbole from both sides of the discussion then pick one up - I'm confident you'll be more than satisfied with the product. Disclaimer: I am niether a shill nor a sockpuppet, but rather a saddleback client that is, based on my personal experience, extremely satisfied with both the company and product.

Originally Posted by Saddleback Leather

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Just as a quick after thought to M&W Traveler's criticism about our pigskin lining. They inferred that our pigskin lining was lined with a cheap polyurethane coating. It's not and you can tell by the pattern that it's real, quality pigskin. Polyurethane doesn't have that type of consistent pattern.

Also, "Arrogant Bastard" do you work for a leather company?

Ok, this is my first post, but I have been a long time lurker so I hope this doesn't come across as shady but I wanted to share my experience. I bought a Saddleback bag about a year ago and had some problems with quality as well as their website being misleading. I received my bag and the thickness of the leather was very inconsistent and was very flimsy in some areas. Also, at this time there was no mention of pigskin on their website whatsoever yet mine came with it on the inside. The pigskin really does look like plastic and looks very cheap. It was all wrinkled and separating from the outer part of leather that it was attached to.

I emailed Saddleback about this and sent a bunch of pictures. There response was something like "all I see is a beautiful, rugged bag with tons of character." I asked why the website says the inside is covered in "suede which is what cowboys and ranch hands use on the outside of their chaps; the more it gets rubbed, the harder it becomes" and yet mine came with some cheap plastic crap. She said it was still suede but they changed to "pigskin suede." I don't know if that is even a real thing but it sure as hell isn't going to "get tougher the more it is rubbed." In the end, she wouldn't pay to have my bag sent back and a new one sent to me, but the bag I had was NOT worth the money I spent so I paid for shipping both ways to get a new bag. The new bag was better but still not what is described on the website. Still has the wrinkled cheap looking "pigskin" and questionable quality. It just sits in the corner of my room and collects dust...

The traveler I think is much more classy and sophisticated. The other is nice but looks like one an explorer or someone would use.

Deuce, that's really weird about the inside leather. The interior on mine has a very distinct suede nap that would never be confused as looking plastic nor cheap.

Perhaps you could post some pictures of the inside, and I will do the same so that they can be objectively compared.

Originally Posted by Classically

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Don't worry about it too much. This thread is just one in a million. Tame by comparison actually.
I love this thread.

What's the difference between a dead leather shill and a dead banker in the road? There are skid marks in front of the leather shill.

Originally Posted by Ahab

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I love this thread. What's the difference between a dead leather shill and a dead banker in the road? There are skid marks in front of the leather shill.
Haha, yeah, and there's the one about the car full of lawyers and the cliff, yada yada yada. *rimshot* In all seriousness, in looking back on my actions in this thread, I may have been a bit of a dick. Fair. Truth be told, I am kind of a dick, so the accusation doesn't really bother me. I am, after all, the kind of douchebag who self-applies the title "Arrogant Bastard." Truth in advertising, I suppose... On that note, I consider it a big problem when a company that advertises its products on this board advertises them in a less than honest fashion. It's an even bigger problem when said company attempts to 'come clean' about past wrongdoings, but doesn't go the full nine yards in its apology -- instead, choosing to deny or cover up some of its bad behaviors, even when evidence is piled in front of it. Does shilling on message boards amount to a hill of beans in this crazy, mixed up world of ours? Not really. But I believe in keeping sellers honest. Companies that ask for our hard-earned cash in exchange for their goods should be putting out quality products in a fair and honest way. While I know very little about the quality of Saddleback's goods, I did learn a thing or two about the company's history of dishonesty. And in my experience, shadiness and bad quality tend to be highly correlated. If indeed Saddleback is putting out a quality product, then all the better; the onus is on Saddleback to promote its quality products in a quality manner. (Insert banker / economic crash jokes here)

I didn't expect the amount of controversy my posting of the Ask Andy thread would generate.

Certainly, there are some alarming issues on the quality of the saddleback bag, as well as touting by possible shills. But there also seems to be a number of people who genuinely like the product. As I do not have such a bag, I can't speak on its quality.

My intention was/is for the OP to consider what some owners of said bags have to say and not just rely on Saddleback's product description, so that he can make an informed purchase decision.

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

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Haha, yeah, and there's the one about the car full of lawyers and the cliff, yada yada yada. *rimshot*

In all seriousness, in looking back on my actions in this thread, I may have been a bit of a dick. Fair. Truth be told, I am kind of a dick, so the accusation doesn't really bother me. I am, after all, the kind of douchebag who self-applies the title "Arrogant Bastard." Truth in advertising, I suppose...

On that note, I consider it a big problem when a company that advertises its products on this board advertises them in a less than honest fashion. It's an even bigger problem when said company attempts to 'come clean' about past wrongdoings, but doesn't go the full nine yards in its apology -- instead, choosing to deny or cover up some of its bad behaviors, even when evidence is piled in front of it.

Does shilling on message boards amount to a hill of beans in this crazy, mixed up world of ours? Not really. But I believe in keeping sellers honest. Companies that ask for our hard-earned cash in exchange for their goods should be putting out quality products in a fair and honest way. While I know very little about the quality of Saddleback's goods, I did learn a thing or two about the company's history of dishonesty. And in my experience, shadiness and bad quality tend to be highly correlated. If indeed Saddleback is putting out a quality product, then all the better; the onus is on Saddleback to promote its quality products in a quality manner.

(Insert banker / economic crash jokes here)

Chances are you wouldn't consume any goods if you knew the history/shadiness behind their production. This is a weak argument.