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When Dana was talking about how Sims was going to win, I thought "If Sims loses now, this show is ******* predictable balls."

Originally Posted by Eason

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When Dana was talking about how Sims was going to win, I thought "If Sims loses now, this show is ******* predictable balls."

Never thought of that, but yeah.

Well from the articles I've read so far (all two of them) it seems Kimbo is indeed training to fight at the finals, so I expect he will fight again, and it will suck before going on to a lackluster performance at the finals. Although I highly doubt he's fighting for the championship, I'm sure his 4 fight contract was secured before the show started filming.

This is just pathetic.

The fact that people even think the Demico fight was good at all just shows how horrific this season has been, and how that fight looks even somewhat respectable by comparison. That fight would have been probably one of the worst fights on any other season of TUF, and probably the worst fight at any UFC event. The latest fight with Wren was just ******* sad.

Seriously this is starting to be like the Entourage thread where we state how much we hate the show yet continue watching it.

I think TUF has jumped the shark.

Originally Posted by r...

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Well from the articles I've read so far (all two of them) it seems Kimbo is indeed training to fight at the finals, so I expect he will fight again, and it will suck before going on to a lackluster performance at the finals. Although I highly doubt he's fighting for the championship, I'm sure his 4 fight contract was secured before the show started filming.

doesn't almost everyone fight in the finale?

maybe the problem is the majority of people on this thread train,fight, or have fought before so I am sure we are being more critical than most. The average dude probably thinks that the fighters on the show are good.

Originally Posted by Mauro

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maybe the problem is the majority of people on this thread train,fight, or have fought before so I am sure we are being more critical than most. The average dude probably thinks that the fighters on the show are good.
That's kind of a dumb thing to say Mauro. I'm not saying the fights so far haven't been mostly crap, cause they have been - but to say none of these guys are "good" is just ignorant. Some of them are, some of them aren't as good. Some are inexperienced, some are seasoned veterans. They all made the show for a reason, and only one of them is there for "ratings". Everyone else is there because they were the best 15 people who tried out for the show.

Originally Posted by Mauro

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maybe the problem is the majority of people on this thread train,fight, or have fought before so I am sure we are being more critical than most. The average dude probably thinks that the fighters on the show are good.

Actually, it's quite often the guys with no formal fight training who usually say, "these guys suck, give me a paycheck and I can kick all their asses".


The same guys with no formal training in boxing who used to say that they kick the **** out of Tyson.

Slim- you are over reacting to what I am saying. NONE of the fighters on the show right now are A listers. Your boy is good and that's a start. Some fo the fighters have time to grow. Some don't.
I don't think I made an ignorant statement at all.
I have trained/train with "a" level fighters and I wouldn't consider myself great. So what makes me ignorant???
I understand it's a tv show but some of the skills displayed that i have seen are flat out sub par.

Som- that is true but I think the majority are more impressed with the skill level on the show than vice versa.
that's just my opinion.

Yea I'm sorry to say it slim but many people with intimate knowledge of MMA are ******** all over this show right now.

It could just be that the fights have been sub par. It's obvious that there are some really good and talented guys, the fights have just been incredibly mediocre. I mean, the fact that many people are saying that the Kimbo fight was the most impressive is kind of sad.

Originally Posted by m@T

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doesn't almost everyone fight in the finale?

Yes, but I was referring to how it involved Kimbo and the "will he fight again?!?!" hype they're pushing. They obviously realize he's marketable so his meal ticket is in the bag. On that note Im sad to not have read that Slim's buddy is training for the December finale.

Originally Posted by SField

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It could just be that the fights have been sub par. It's obvious that there are some really good and talented guys, the fights have just been incredibly mediocre. I mean, the fact that many people are saying that the Kimbo fight was the most impressive is kind of sad.

I think that this is probably the fairest statement. I think that there are two factors at work here.

1) Good fighters can put on some pretty mediocre fights. Actually, this is pretty common when both fighters are good. It's sort of the college ball vs. NBA phenomenon. In college ball, there are so many mediocre players that the stars stand out. However, at the pro level, these stars (even after a few years) can seem pretty mediocre because the talent level is so high that it is really difficult to shine, especially on the offensive end. Same goes with fighting. If you are clearly a few steps above the competition, you are going to look spectacular. If all the guys are as good as you are, it's a different story altogether.

2) Some of the fighters are still fairly green. One of the best trainers I know told me that you lose about 90% of what you can do in training in an actual fight, and this is the excuse I've always used. Okay, really now, this is probably more true of the less experienced fighters, for obvious reasons. For example, in Kimbo's fight, it was pretty obvious that he just forgot every single piece of groundwork he'd ever learned. Of course, Roy Nelson is a legit Renzo Gracie black belt, and fat though he is, I'm pretty sure he'd school everyone of us on the ground even worse than he did Kimbo.

All that said, there is no excuse for Wes Sims performance. The guy is a legit fighter, has fought decently in the big leagues against big competition. In his TUF fight, and regardless of how strong Wren is, (and Travis Lutter is a good BJJ guy, lackluster UFC career aside,) it was really surprising that he got caught in an arm triangle the way he did. The only thing that I can think of is that he severely underestimated his competition, which does happen.

Originally Posted by Mauro

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Slim- you are over reacting to what I am saying. NONE of the fighters on the show right now are A listers. Your boy is good and that's a start. Some fo the fighters have time to grow. Some don't. I don't think I made an ignorant statement at all. I have trained/train with "a" level fighters and I wouldn't consider myself great. So what makes me ignorant???
I'd say there are about... five "A-listers" in the UFC at HW at the moment. Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, Kongo, and Gonzaga. So which one of them do you train with? Basically, what you are saying is that you are a better judge of talent than the people who scout fighters for the UFC. While this may be the case, that's sort of like watching any other sporting event and telling your buddies how much better you are than whoever screws up. You don't train with A-list fighters to compete in the UFC. You aren't doing three hours of rolling, three hours of bag work and running five to seven miles every day like the guys on Team Rampage were.

I understand it's a tv show but some of the skills displayed that i have seen are flat out sub par.

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Under conditions you have never had to face or replicate; being trained to literal exhaustion every day for six weeks, not knowing who or when you are fighting, having hundreds of thousand dollars on the line, and having unfamiliar coaches that you don't really know or trust (and who don't know you) telling you unfamiliar things. I have no doubt that these guys are "better" than you think . Their heads are being purposefully messed with, they are training and fighting at an inhuman level of speed, and they are under a lot of pressure. When you basically get scouted by the UFC, and have all the biggest trainers and fighters in the UFC wanting to work with you, you aren't a bum. There are some sub-par fighters on this show. There are on every season of TUF. There are also some good fighters on this show. It seems like you are saying that if you can't KO Lesnar, you don't deserve to be in the UFC. Well I'm telling you thats just dumb. That's all I have to say.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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Basically, what you are saying is that you are a better judge of talent than the people who scout fighters for the UFC. While this may be the case, that's sort of like watching any other sporting event and telling your buddies how much better you are than whoever screws up. You don't train with A-list fighters to compete in the UFC. You aren't doing three hours of rolling, three hours of bag work and running five to seven miles every day like the guys on Team Rampage were.

I did about exactly 1/2 of that workout yesterday (well, more running, but I weight less than 170 lbs, and have run my entire adult life), and I am going to need the day before I train and roll again tomorrow.

That said, yeah, I agree with you. I think that what most people forget is that you can look great in practice (especially on the pads) and it's really hard to replicate when there is an equally talented guy on the other side.

FWIW, I've trained (i.e. was schooled/crushed/pwnd) by a number of A-listers (including one UFC hall of famer) on several occasions. I felt like I'd been through a meat grinder.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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I'd say there are about... five "A-listers" in the UFC at HW at the moment. Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, Kongo, and Gonzaga. So which one of them do you train with?

Mir, Randy, Big Nog, at least, all belong in that category as well.