Cadillac

Like an updated interpretation of classic James Young coachbuilding.
It should be tacky -- but somehow they pulled it off.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Originally Posted by tomcreo

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Speaking of Mercedes in a Cadillac thread, has anyone noticed a similarity in design and profile lines between the new E-Class and the CTS?

Funny, I took both out for a test drive this past weekend and noticed the same thing from a side profile.

I know a lot of people love the CTS (which is why I'm giving it a hard look), but it just didn't feel like the quality was really there when I took it out for the first time this past Saturday. Maybe it's somewhat of a function of me having test driven a couple of BMWs and a Merc on the same day, but the interior felt a bit (dare I say?) cheaper by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I love the interior styling, but the trim and general feel inside didn't feel quite up to snuff in comparison to the others (the E class interior, for example, gives the impression that the overall car is a tank). Clarkson noted the same thing in a review on Top Gear: Top Gear Reviews CTS-V.

Doesn't really throw it out of contention for me as it has more than its share of other plusses. And that Seville is sweeet.

Like an updated interpretation of classic James Young coachbuilding.

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...or, the Daimler DS 420

Originally Posted by EmJay

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Funny, I took both out for a test drive this past weekend and noticed the same thing from a side profile.

I know a lot of people love the CTS (which is why I'm giving it a hard look), but it just didn't feel like the quality was really there when I took it out for the first time this past Saturday. Maybe it's somewhat of a function of me having test driven a couple of BMWs and a Merc on the same day, but the interior felt a bit (dare I say?) cheaper by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I love the interior styling, but the trim and general feel inside didn't feel quite up to snuff in comparison to the others (the E class interior, for example, gives the impression that the overall car is a tank). Clarkson noted the same thing in a review on Top Gear: Top Gear Reviews CTS-V.

Doesn't really throw it out of contention for me as it has more than its share of other plusses. And that Seville is sweeet.

That Top Gear Review is of the old model CTS-V. The 2009 and 2010 is a COMPLETELY different car.

Check this out:

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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...or, the Daimler DS 420




YES!. That is a better example. The DS 420 was designed by the coachbuilder Vanden Plas.
I wonder if Daimler (Jaguar) will ever build a successor to the DS 420 limousine?

There have been some attempts at designing one:

Cadillac would have upstaged Rolls-Royce and Maybach if they had built this thing.


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Originally Posted by hypersonic

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Cadillac would have upstaged Rolls-Royce and Maybach if they had built this thing.

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I think the Sixteen is the most beautiful Cadillac, but unfortunately they just used some the design cues and watered it down to their current mass produced models.

Originally Posted by hypersonic

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Like an updated interpretation of classic James Young coachbuilding.
It should be tacky -- but somehow they pulled it off.

This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen....

Originally Posted by Dragon

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I think the Sixteen is the most beautiful Cadillac, but unfortunately they just used some the design cues and watered it down to their current mass produced models.

Ah, the Sixteen!I've still got the Robb Report issue on that one, still in the plastic. They wouldn't have just upstaged the Phantom and the Conti GT, they'd have upstaged the Veyron - it's 13.5-liter V16 engine had 1000hp as well.

Originally Posted by epb

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Ah, the Sixteen!I've still got the Robb Report issue on that one, still in the plastic. They wouldn't have just upstaged the Phantom and the Conti GT, they'd have upstaged the Veyron - it's 13.5-liter V16 engine had 1000hp as well.

Maybe the massive engine is why it didn`t go into production. The shape is really nice, but it doesn`t look like there is anything designed into the beauty to handle that much power.

Originally Posted by Dragon

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Maybe the massive engine is why it didn`t go into production. The shape is really nice, but it doesn`t look like there is anything designed into the beauty to handle that much power.

Yeah, I think it is the engineering that had to go into the speeds that it would be capable of.

VW/Audi lost money on every Veyron produced due to how advanced it had to be. By the time you factor in fluid dynamics at 200 mph, you get something that is hideous...like the Veyron.

The Sixteen was interesting conceptually, but it was out of its league, due to the marque, to compete with Rolls/Bentley/Maybach. Similar to the problems the Phaeton had. Great car, incorrect badge.

Originally Posted by tomcreo

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The Sixteen was interesting conceptually, but it was out of its league, due to the marque, to compete with Rolls/Bentley/Maybach. Similar to the problems the Phaeton had. Great car, incorrect badge.

But this is what is needed to put Cadillac back in the top league where it once was.


Wrong badge?
The Sixteen is unmistakably a Cadillac -- it could be no other marque -- that is what makes it so good.

Originally Posted by Mannix

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This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen....

I think it is one of the courtesy cars at the Ritz Hotel in Paris.

Originally Posted by tomcreo

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Yup. I understand Cadillac's theme. I purchased my CTS-V because of it: it looked like nothing else on the road.

I just thought that there was a sense of irony in M-B's reappropriation, especially with my car in mind. With the V being a car produced with the German sedans squarely in it's sights, that the new M-B design has taken some notes from the Americans is saying something about the CTS & CTS-V's quality.

It seems, at some point the US auto-industry completely lost faith in the culture of their own brands. Why would anyone want a Cadillac that tries to be German? ...or Japanese?


In the minds of millions of car enthusiasts around the world, Cadillac is still the "Great American Luxury Car". There were several great American luxury brands in the past but Cadillac is definitely the most well loved. I feel that some people at GM were just starting to rediscover the culture of the Cadillac brand and its potential -- unfortunately, they have a few economic issues to contend with first.

When Cadillac did produce a V16, it was America's competition to Mercedes and Rolls Royce (bespoke coachwork from builders in both the US and Europe, 452 cubic inch, 185 hp engine pushing it to 80-100+ mph depending on body, seats were made to custom measurements for no extra charge, lap robes and down pillows were factory options, etc), though it never reached anywhere remotely near Bugatti Type 41 Royale territory. I think there were, what, 6 or 10 Type 41s made? Compared to several thousand Cadillac V16s. The Cad V16 would be comparable to a modern S class though; inflation adjusted prices seem to put it in the 90-140k ballpark depending on trim and coachwork. However, the rear-leg room in the sedans and phaetons is amazing.

Originally Posted by Lendrum & Hartman (Cadillac's London sales agent

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With the 16-cylinder model Cadillac has achieved at once the greatest sensation and the foremost engineering triumph of the season. This is the most individualistic and powerful car ever made for ordinary private use and every care has been taken to ensure that each detail of its construction is worthy of its amazing engine. It is indeed, the supreme achievement in motor car design - and at a price no competitor can equal. This 16-cylinder engine is built on the fundamental principles of design that have created the proud Cadillac record; its power, its efficiency, its flexibility put it in a position far ahead of all possible rivals. For such an engine a super-chassis was essential, and this Cadillac have built - incorporating the well-proved characteristics of Cadillac mechanism and giving perfect ride at even the very highest speeds.
The cheapo body style, a family-sized limo, intended to be chauffeur driven (has a partition glass between the front seat and rear compartment). Its inflation-adjusted price would be about 90 US dollars. And perhaps the most expensive: