Apple f***ing sucks

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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Nobody said anything about building your own computer. You want to do it that way, I can probably beat a Mac with my eyes shut. And you speak for the average user now? I didn't know you were an elected representative... You know what statistically the "average user" uses his computer for? Email and web-surfing. THAT'S IT. Why on earth would you need a Mac to do that when a $199 Ubuntu box from Wal-Mart is going to do that just as well as the $600 Mac Mini.

That`s my whole point...Average users only use their computers for email, etc. as you described yet they buy from Vaio, Dell, Lenovo, etc. If the price is not much different (when you compare the same specs) there is nothing wrong with buying an Apple. Like I repeated many times, Apple does not provide the "best value" in any of their products (I have been saying that from the beginning) but they certainly are not $1,000 more than others, and they are not always the most expensive either.

Going by your reasoning, there is no reason to buy anything but the cheapest computer because that is enough, but that`s not what you are saying. You are saying only Apple sucks because the cheapest computer is good enough.

Just for ***** and Giggles:

Tokyo Slim built mini computer:

Pentium Dual Core 2.8GB E6300
4GB OCZ 800Mhz DDR2 RAM
160GB 5400RPM Western Digital Notebook drive
LG Lightscribe 22x DVDRW
Winsys Steel micro case w 250w power supply
Fully tested processor/ram/MB
3 day shipping

$344.71

Originally Posted by Dragon

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That`s my whole point...Average users only use their computers for email, etc. as you described yet they buy from Vaio, Dell, Lenovo, etc. If the price is not much different (when you compare the same specs) there is nothing wrong with buying an Apple. Like I repeated many times, Apple does not provide the "best value" in any of their products (I have been saying that from the beginning) but they certainly are not $1,000 more than others, and they are not always the most expensive either.
ALMOST always. And if you consider value and upgradability, even more so. It also depends on what you consider to be "much different" I've shown that the pricing is indeed pretty goddamn different. Unless you consider paying $400 more for 1/2 the computer (my first example), or $200 more (half the cost of the whole computer) for slightly lesser performing mac mini to be "similar"...

Going by your reasoning, there is no reason to buy anything but the cheapest computer because that is enough, but that`s not what you are saying. You are saying only Apple sucks because the cheapest computer is good enough.

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Now you are just making **** up. I didn't say that, nor did I infer that. You are the one who was whining about me using top of the line systems for value comparison. Even though this is where it's clearest. The amount of computer you can get for less than the Mac Pro is amazing. You can also do it with the bottom of the line... so I did that too. Now you are crying about that. You seem to not have much of a point. And for the record, I am not saying that the "cheapest computer is good enough". Obviously if the cheapest computer was good enough, as I said, people would buy the $199 Ubuntu or Lindows systems at Wal-Mart. I am saying quite the opposite actually. Not that the cheapest is good enough, but that Apple is a prestige brand, and not a competitive hardware brand, except on the top of a release cycle. That you pay more for much less with Apple than you will with nearly any other manufacturer. If you are going to pay $600, $1500, $4000, or $7000, for a Mac, don't pretend like you are doing it for performance, because you could have had better from elsewhere. Sony is nearly as bad, but they aren't there yet. You just aren't paying enough attention to get it.

Originally Posted by Mr. Macaque

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there is something to be said about mac hardware, at least for the notebooks. the unibody mac is SOLID. i feel that i can drop it about five feet onto floor and it will hold up. that and the very nice mac os makes the notebook worth the extra money.
It might feel that way, but I wouldn't try it. Honestly, Aluminum is not the most durable of materials to be dropping. Plastic is often better. And cheaper to replace. Not saying it's better, but as far as dropping a $2k laptop goes, I don't think there are any winners. http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/app...-macbooks.html

Quite funny how this thread evolved.

Without beeing asked for my opionion:
I thought twice if I go to the dark...well... Apple side of life. Once with the MacBook Pro and once with the iPhone 3GS.

Decided against the MacBook Pro as I got a better configuration in a Dell XPS M1530 for 500 EUR less (granted, that's close 2 years ago now). So I was not really willing to pay 40% more for weaker CPU, weaker GPU but the nicer case.

iPhone has ridiculous provider bindining in Germany with the cheapest contract with data flat stuffed with free minutes, free SMS, free provider WiFi usage, bla bla, pushing the monthly price to 45 EUR minimum. So decided towards the cheaper HTC Touch Pro 2 which brings the better business usability in my oppinion (and is offered by a more reasonable provider).

For me the problem with Apple is that the products are often overpriced. I can understand when people say they are easier to use, but then I've never encountered any problem with a Windows based system that I wasn't able to solve with the help of teh interwebz.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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Just for ***** and Giggles:

Tokyo Slim built mini computer:

Pentium Dual Core 2.8GB E6300
4GB OCZ 800Mhz DDR2 RAM
160GB 5400RPM Western Digital Notebook drive
LG Lightscribe 22x DVDRW
Winsys Steel micro case w 250w power supply
Fully tested processor/ram/MB
3 day shipping

$344.71

That looks hot. Did you pick it together yourself or is the whole thing sold in a package somewhere? What casing is it? Need details!

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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It might feel that way, but I wouldn't try it. Honestly, Aluminum is not the most durable of materials to be dropping. Plastic is often better. And cheaper to replace.

the aluminum itself might ding from a (admittedly short) fall, but i'm pretty sure the internals would still hold up. there is virtually no play anywhere in the machine that would suggest that the components would bang around inside the body and break. yeah, you're going to say that that's true for all laptops, but it's not: my old cheapo asus had mechanical problems with the battery, lcd connector, optical drive, and other stuff soon after i bought it.

Originally Posted by Ziss

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That looks hot. Did you pick it together yourself or is the whole thing sold in a package somewhere? What casing is it? Need details!

Just picked the parts out of an online catalog

Originally Posted by Mr. Macaque

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the aluminum itself might ding from a (admittedly short) fall, but i'm pretty sure the internals would still hold up. there is virtually no play anywhere in the machine that would suggest that the components would bang around inside the body and break. yeah, you're going to say that that's true for all laptops, but it's not: my old cheapo asus had mechanical problems with the battery, lcd connector, optical drive, and other stuff soon after i bought it.
Yeah, but its $500-1400 to replace a dented aluminum panel that may or may not have also damaged the internals, but is glued to them anyways. I'm going to say it's a wash.

To the OP - coming in a bit late - but I feel your pain. My first few days with the iPod-"sometimes I will work"- Touch and a new MacBook pro were frustrating.

Service has ranged from abysmal to moderately above average (any given day), the stability has been great, and the integration and management of photos, music etc has been absolutely crap imho.

iTunes might be a great tool for Apple to make money. However, if your wonderfully helpful Apple 'guru' sync's your iPod on your new computer and erases all of your legitimately purchased music and movies that happen to be on the other side of the planet (because you travel and download music so you don't have to carry around a checked bag's worth of CD's and DVD's) iTunes, Apple, and your friendly Apple 'gurus' can seem pretty worthless.

ah, sorry to hear about your troubles with apple. i recently switched to a mac and haven't ran into any problems yet.

I switched to mac and I'll never go back...

PC is the biggest piece of crap there is...

I don't always agree with his Apple bent but Slim is bringin' it here. Nicely done Apple's are horribly overpriced. There is absolutely no argument there. They make very pretty computers and stuff them with outdated components. Having said that, the iMac and Macbook Pro 13" are the best in their class at the moment as far as design and function go. I'll never understand how the Mac Pro became the default computer for high-end video editing but it is. The rest of the machines suck. They're re-doing the iMac and updating the low end plastic Macbook this month. I'm curious to see how they update the iMac.

I don't think you can say Macs are HORRIBLY overpriced anymore.

I needed a new laptop about 3 months ago. It came down to Lenovo X200 vs. 13" Unibody MBP (the new one). Retail is about $1300 vs $1200, respectively. Real life price is $900 vs $950, respectively. I went for the Lenovo but the Macbook has many features which are lacking on the Lenovo (longer battery, backlit keyboard, faster processor, etc).

I totally understand the OPs frustration with stuff "not working". Sometimes apple **** does not work as smoothly as it's supposed to.

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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It came down to Lenovo X200 vs. 13" Unibody MBP (the new one).

Why?