Video Games

Originally Posted by Nananine

Click to expand...

Also, it wasn't so much late David Lynch as the Wachowski Brothers.
Not that it matters, really, but I politely disagree. First, the Wachowski Brothers were simply doing a Philip K. Dick adaptation without giving Dick any credit, which they tried to mask by giving interviews in which they feigned an interest in Schopenhauer and others who didn't influence the Matrix Trilogy and whom they clearly hadn't understood or possibly even read. If you happen to read two early to mid-career novels by Dick (assuming you haven't), you'll recognize the formula (which you've probably absorbed already from the countless flicks based on his waking-from-society's-mass-hallucination premise). Second, without getting into it, the same kind of sudden let-down due to a similarly ridiculous change of subject occurs in the last episodes of Twin Peaks as in Indigo Prophecy. That's what I meant. Edit: But now that I think of it, you're probably referring to the way the MT runs out of conceptual steam in the final flick. Nevermind.

Suda51 is several levels above David Cage, though... for now. No More Heroes is easily one of the most complete artistic statements of this generation of video games.

Click to expand...

I agree. Still, my point had to do with the progression of linear narrative in games, which seems to be Cage's particular specialty and limitation. Suda51 has ambitions and concepts that far outstrip mere narrative concerns. You and I don't even know if Heavy Rain will turn out to be worth playing. It looks to have the same pull-them-in-with-carnage-and-forensics opening as IP, which makes me worry that Heavy Rain is going to be an improved version of that previous flawed effort. Cage is a transposer of ideas and forms outside gaming (genre films, hypertext novels), while Suda51 is idiomatic, generating work that plays with the concept and structure of gaming itself (as well as pushing narrative). Did you feel No More Heroes was as linear in the narrative sense as Killer 7? I thought it was really meta, breaking conventions in ways that were difficult as well as (intentionally) slapstick and cartoonish -- something he's tended toward in other projects, but never this completely. He's as ambitious as Cage tries to sound, but in completely different areas: Heroes is more manga than cinematic. It also has a kind of giddy inclusiveness: Suda put in everything, no matter how ridiculous, and that reckless confidence gives the game rare and refreshing energy, wit and integrity -- not only that, but virtually every odd object and detail has relevance to the story. And true to form, the gameplay is idiomatic -- even in its use of the Wii's rather gimmicky interface. It's fun to discuss gaming on an ambitious creative level. It's something that seems only to happen on sites not devoted to actual gaming. jonglover: Have you tried Suda51's Flower, Sun and Rain? A friend of mine picked it up last month and can't stop talking about how strange and absorbing it is to play. It sounds like a specimen of his earlier approach to linear narrative, though the story sounds like it's from a pop-ref-laden multiple-choice issue of Daniel Clowes's Eightball. My friend keeps telling me about an apologetic woman who lives under the main character's bed.

Originally Posted by cheessus

Click to expand...

Is it ok if Persona 4 is my guilty pleasure? I'm neither in high school nor do i lack a girlfriend...

My main character dated Yukiko.

I have problems adopting the whole "videogames as art" thing. I think it's because I think of art as snotty and irrelevant. I do appreciate games that show the love their developers and creators had in making them, games like Baldur's Gate (and its sequel), the original Fallout (2 was stupid, 3 is ok) and of course the awesome old LucasArts games (especially Grim Fandango!) I just have trouble equating a medium that lets you make people explode with "art."

Of course, the same can be said of film. So I dunno.

Originally Posted by Alias

Click to expand...

My main character dated Yukiko.


My main character dated, like, 4 chix at the same time.

Originally Posted by cheessus

Click to expand...

My main character dated, like, 4 chix at the same time.

Yeah I'm going to go all big pimpin' on my current New Game+ playthrough. Including Naoto (whom you can only date on New Game+)

I have the Persona remake for PSP on its way. I hope they bring over Persona 3 PSP to NA.

Originally Posted by Alias

Click to expand...

My main character dated Yukiko.

I have problems adopting the whole "videogames as art" thing. I think it's because I think of art as snotty and irrelevant. I do appreciate games that show the love their developers and creators had in making them, games like Baldur's Gate (and its sequel), the original Fallout (2 was stupid, 3 is ok) and of course the awesome old LucasArts games (especially Grim Fandango!) I just have trouble equating a medium that lets you make people explode with "art."

Of course, the same can be said of film. So I dunno.

Psychonauts. That is all.

Originally Posted by Helix

Click to expand...

Psychonauts. That is all.

It's on sale here for like 10 bucks, but I hear the difficulty level suddenly explodes mid-game.

Actually it explodes on the last level to omgwtf hard compared to the rest of the game then the final boss fight is unimaginably easy. Really the game is soooo much less about the gameplay than it is the story and creativity of the whole thing. Definitely worth a buy. Especially at that price. Thank me later.

Since that doesn't sound convincing enough let me just say there is an entire level styled like a black velvet painting that has a lucha libre side story.

Aion is getting cool now.

I spent like 2 hours today figuring out my spell lines so that I could plan my hotkeys and macros for both pve and pve, so that I don't have to keep rearranging them as I gain new abilities. There's tons of keys to know and I have to be able to do whatever i need to do quickly and without thinking to remember what is where, especially in PvP.

I put EDSF for movement and everything else is clustered around them. Got a really good layout now and i'm starting to get used to it after a few screw-ups reaching for my old keys. It could be even better if I could get the rest of my mousebuttons to work, but the damned logitech software doesn't work with the game.

I'm on that Oceanic server, Nez-somethingorother. Level 22 Elyos Templar. Would have gone Asmo if they weren't the majority of the server population.

I finished the Verteros campaign and will probably finish those miscellaneous Krall quests solo once I'm level 30-ish, because I hate that place and don't want to go there for a while.

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Click to expand...

It could be even better if I could get the rest of my mousebuttons to work, but the damned logitech software doesn't work with the game.
If you're using the Logitech software, it's possible to bind the mouse buttons to keyboard keys. It's possible to make a unique bind for every application. That way you can also use, for example, scroll wheel tilt to left or right.

Originally Posted by Alias

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm going to go all big pimpin' on my current New Game+ playthrough. Including Naoto (whom you can only date on New Game+) I have the Persona remake for PSP on its way. I hope they bring over Persona 3 PSP to NA.
You can date Naoto on the first playthrough, you just basically have to use a guide to make sure your answers are perfect and you start your relationship at the very first opportunity. I chose Rise both times. Actually the second time through I picked Ai because I wanted to see what her storyline was like, but since she dumps you around level 9 you can choose a different girl, and I picked Rise again. Yukiko always seemed boring and Chie reminds me of girls RL in my past who like me but I never liked back. My favorite part about the game is keeping in the theme of "persona," meaning that you're constantly wearing a mask. You're rewarded for telling people what they want to hear, regardless of whether or not it's the truth. I love it. The ultimate Persona is cool looking and obviously fits the main character well, but he's not super useful because he learns a very small set of skills and doesn't get any super big physical attacks, like deathbound or agyenastra (or whatever its called). Of course his stats are so incredibly good that you can pretty much only use physical attacks and do more damage, but still..

****, RROD'd!!! For the second time

Dead Space Extraction (Wii) looks incredible. I cant believe it, but this is a genuinely AAA mature game on the Wii - voice acting, graphics, storyline, gameplay, everything is tight as **** and really well-done.

Started and finished The Dig yesterday. Easily one of Lucasarts' weakest adventure games, sadly. It's a Forbidden Planet rehash with terrible dialog (courtesy of Orson Scott Card) and one-dimensional characters (arrogant wuss German stereotype courtesy of arrogant wuss German stereotype pioneer Stephen Spielburg). I'm waiting for Full Throttle and the original Sam & Max to come to Steam.

Originally Posted by jonglover

Click to expand...

You guys are giving middlebrow devs way too much credit. Suda will do something truly impressive once he has the development team to back it up. This is why I was so excited about Project S (plus, I adore Snatcher) with Kojima, but last I heard, from someone that would know at EA Partners, it's merely 'an idea' at this point.
There isn't a big budget video game out there that doesn't have upwards of 150-200 people on the dev team, so of course you have to have a good team behind you. Lots of projects get scuttled due to weaknesses on dev teams. Look at Bethesda, it's practically all complex systems and very little design capability (I still love their games anyway). Japanese-style game design depends on singular artistic vision (Miyamoto, Kojima, Suda51, Yuji Naka), as opposed to a culmination of ideas, so they have to work with trusted lieutenants or it just doesn't work. It's extremely difficult to make a complete artistic statement in a video game due to the size of those teams, as well as production costs, time, and heavy commercialization.

Originally Posted by Fidgeteer

Click to expand...

Cage is a transposer of ideas and forms outside gaming (genre films, hypertext novels), while Suda51 is idiomatic, generating work that plays with the concept and structure of gaming itself (as well as pushing narrative). Did you feel No More Heroes was as linear in the narrative sense as Killer 7? I thought it was really meta, breaking conventions in ways that were difficult as well as (intentionally) slapstick and cartoonish -- something he's tended toward in other projects, but never this completely. He's as ambitious as Cage tries to sound, but in completely different areas: Heroes is more manga than cinematic. It also has a kind of giddy inclusiveness: Suda put in everything, no matter how ridiculous, and that reckless confidence gives the game rare and refreshing energy, wit and integrity -- not only that, but virtually every odd object and detail has relevance to the story. And true to form, the gameplay is idiomatic -- even in its use of the Wii's rather gimmicky interface. It's fun to discuss gaming on an ambitious creative level. It's something that seems only to happen on sites not devoted to actual gaming.
No More Heroes reminds me of Sion Sono's movies. There isn't a wasted object or frame in that game; the craziest to the most banal moments are all artistically important. That's why I liked the game better than Cage has done so far (although I never finished Omikron: The Nomad Soul). Suda51 looks at what makes games games: the interactivity, the system of rules, the game play. Often people look at one aspect and say "this is art" when really it's not.

Originally Posted by Szeph el ratón

Click to expand...

If you're using the Logitech software, it's possible to bind the mouse buttons to keyboard keys. It's possible to make a unique bind for every application. That way you can also use, for example, scroll wheel tilt to left or right.

I did that, but as soon as I configured it, even the extra buttons that WERE working, stopped working. My forward and back buttons were working until i installed the software. Once installed they stopped working. Then when I uninstalled, they worked again. The extra buttons did work in windows with the software though. So there's something about Aion+win7 64-bit+logitech setpoint that doesn't work together very well.