RLPL and Made in China

Originally Posted by PocketCircle

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Then you have to question the prices... How much do they pay the worker doing the knitting per hour? $1?

And then they put a $600 price tag on that sweater.

Exactly. Many of the black label pieces that I have seen recently was made in China, except the denim and the suits. On the other hand, I don't think that many people care where the clothes are made though.

Originally Posted by PocketCircle

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They may be Chinese hands but at least they are paid according to the European standards and it's different from the slavery-level conditions in some Chinese sweatshops.

Would you like to buy a bridge?

I have RLPL chinese made braces, and they're fantastic. If it didnt say 'made in china' I would have guessed england.

Worry more about the integrity of the company that's having things made in China. If the material specs are identical and the manufacturing tolerances are identical then place of manufacture is a moot point. Hopefully the company also outsources to manufacturing firms that do take care of their employees in a respectable manner although that's not a requirement in the manufacturing world per se.

It's a global market these days and things are done differently. Worry about what really matters when it comes to a quality prodect and get over the where it's made fallacy.

Originally Posted by PocketCircle

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They may be Chinese hands but at least they are paid according to the European standards and it's different from the slavery-level conditions in some Chinese sweatshops.

Nope. Working in far worse conditions than they would be in China, where companies like Ralph Lauren make an active effort to ensure that there subcontractors follow minimum labour practices to prevent any accusation of exploitation.

In Italy, as organized crime has taken over much of the fashion business they are increasingly using illegal labour, from China and nearer points. The workers are held in a form of indentured servitude to pay off the smugglers that got them to this point. Conditions are shocking, the workshops are illegal and its all done with a wink, wink to the brands who know that they're not going to get done for the conditions in Europe. I was blown away when I read the book, more so when I saw the movie.

So what's the difference between Made in China [by Chinese] vs. Made in Italy [by illiegal Chinese labors]?

Literally nothing. The port of Naples handles 20 percent of the value of Italian textile imports from China, but more than 70 percent of the quantity.

Tons and tons of 'Made in Italy' clothing is actually produced in China and then retagged when it lands in Italy or has some final assembly/embellishment done in the above workshops. A lot of this is fast fashion or cheap fashion but can include top brands who all subcontract.

Another con involves floating factory ships, they pick up clothing in China and tranship via Malyasia or Indonesia where documents are produced indicating origin in Bangladesh or another country with a favourable tariff quotas. While the ship slowly makes its way out to sea onboard teams change the original labels of origin over to match the documents, Bangladesh etc. Those goods are then landed in Italy or Germany, where ever only to be rebadged again as being European made.

If you can find it, someplace on the web is a transcript of a great Italian documentary - Slaves of Luxury - that breaks down much of this. Its pretty interesting stuff.

To be honest, there are barely difference between Made in China and Made in Italy .People just want a fancy name come from a 'fancy' country and do not care much about the quality. Actully, in 70s made in japan also means crap...

This is something that I struggle with on a regular basis. To me, it has nothing to do with the quality at all as both identical pieces made in 2 diff countries will last the same, wear the same, etc especially when it bears a premium label like rlpl. To me, it has to do with the greedy pockets of ralph and the lack of corporate integrity trying to make an extra buck by exploiting my people.

Very simple example:
Italian labor: $8.48/hour
Chinese Labor: $1.27/hour

Same sweater takes the same amount of time, materials, shipping charges, etc to produce and they both cost exactly the same to the purchaser at the retail establishment.

Someone is coming out like a bandit when this happens and it ain't:
1) Me,
2) The chinese factory worker
3) the retail location.

Now why the hell would I stuff extra dough into Ralph's pcoket's when I'm already $425 in teh hole for a damn shirt?



(disclaimer: I love rlpl, but whenever I see a made in china tag on one, I cringe.)


I do buy made in China stuff. Just not luxury labels made in China cause the designer houses don't deserve the extra buck. Most RTW run of the mill Luxury labels usually slip in a Made in China piece between several others that are made in italy. This is why i have respect for Ferragamo (amongst others like Canali, etc) as they stay as far away from Chinese sweatshops as possible. you can rest assured that if it has a ferragamo label, its made in italy. thought the same for Zegna at one point until they came out with EZ Sport.

Originally Posted by Journeyman

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What RLPL products are made in China?

I ordered a sheepskin coat a couple years ago and it was made in China. A Blue Label if I recall.

Why do you call it exploiting your people? The only way you can say that is if the Italian is making 8 bucks an hour and the Chinese worker is making a buck an hour in the same plant, in the same country, doing the exact same job. Then and only then would I consider the being exploited argument as valid.

Someone brought up Japan and the rep they had in the 70s. Fast forward 40 years and the Japanese are now known for their top tier work and products with paycheck/lifestyles to match. Where was China 30 years ago? Where will they be in 20 or 30 years? My guess is they will be a top tier producer of goods following best practices with matching paychecks/lifestyles to boot.

Take off the blinders and open your eyes for a change.

My ex landlord made his fortune by living many years in rural China and running a textile factory there. He sold stuff to many brands including M&S etc. According to what he told me, workers there live in horrible conditions but just before EU people etc come to inspect things, they change things so that the whole condition doesn't look that bad. Also, according to him again, Chinese still have a long way to go before they can copy the quality production processes of other textile countries such as Portugal, Turkey etc. He never bought any clothing item made in China for himself

Originally Posted by PocketCircle

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My ex landlord made his fortune by living many years in rural China and running a textile factory there. He sold stuff to many brands including M&S etc. According to what he told me, workers there live in horrible conditions but just before EU people etc come to inspect things, they change things so that the whole condition doesn't look that bad.

Also, according to him again, Chinese still have a long way to go before they can copy the quality production processes of other textile countries such as Portugal, Turkey etc.

He never bought any clothing item made in China for himself

How long ago was this? Back in the middle 90's?

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Why do you call it exploiting your people? The only way you can say that is if the Italian is making 8 bucks an hour and the Chinese worker is making a buck an hour in the same plant, in the same country, doing the exact same job. Then and only then would I consider the being exploited argument as valid.

Take off the blinders and open your eyes for a change.


Look, all's I'm trying to say is that the manufacturers make even more of a ****** my making their clothes in China. When the luxury goods co is making more profit, it means someone is taking a hit/loss. IMO it's a combination of the Chinese worker (and it doesn't have to be chinese--also viet, malay,cambodia, etc) and me as the end user.

Is that so far fetched that i need to go beyond the lasix I already have?

However, I DO realize that I left out an integral part of the ****** in my initial post--the factory owner who in turn pays the workers the $1.27 and feeds them birth control pills to prevent any "downtime" to his assembly line.

Bottom line--there is exploitation going on. Period. And I make an conscious effort to not take part in it. Fair enough?

Originally Posted by Crane's

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How long ago was this? Back in the middle 90's?

Actually no. This happens now sir.