Master Cleanse

Originally Posted by lance konami

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Prolonged restriction without resistance training of some kind may lead to a loss of lean muscle tissue. If you're going to do intermittent fasting, it's best if you're on some kind of regular lifting program. If you are lifting and fasting, you won't see any muscle loss. There's research in that area as well. You'll probably even see increases in strength. I have. If you're really interested in the topic, check out Eat Stop Eat. Lots and lots of cited research in his book.

Wouldn't that defy the idea that maintaining a caloric deficit is the primary cause of weight loss? (And as a follow-up, that generally speaking it is almost impossible to lose fat while maintaining 100% of your muscle mass?)

Not trying to stir trouble, just interested in your thoughts.

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

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Wouldn't that defy the idea that maintaining a caloric deficit is the primary cause of weight loss?

Not sure I follow you here...Intermittent fasting does create a calorie deficit, and yes, creating a calorie deficit is the primary cause of fat loss.

(And as a follow-up, that generally speaking it is almost impossible to lose fat while maintaining 100% of your muscle mass?)

Not trying to stir trouble, just interested in your thoughts.

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It's really not impossible to lose fat while maintaining 100% of your muscle mass. Most of these beliefs are hustled by supplement companies with a vested interest in you thinking that way though. A lot of people in the fitness industry say things like "you can't build muscle without creating a calorie surplus, and you can't lose fat without creating a calorie deficit." Only the second part of that statement is actually true.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Originally Posted by erdawe

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It's the blind leading the blind.

What?

Originally Posted by lance konami

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What?

If someone can read through this diet and think it's nutritionally and healthily sound; then I feel sorry for their lack of background knowledge to see through the smoke and mirrors. It won't be worth the time trying to get you to "see the light."

Originally Posted by erdawe

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If someone can read through this diet and think it's nutritionally and healthily sound; then I feel sorry for their lack of background knowledge to see through the smoke and mirrors. It won't be worth the time trying to get you to "see the light."

Healthily?

It's not meant to be a healthy alternative to food. It's meant to crash off weight. Quickly.

And the litre of warm salt water is a party for your ass.

lefty

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

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Wouldn't that defy the idea that maintaining a caloric deficit is the primary cause of weight loss? (And as a follow-up, that generally speaking it is almost impossible to lose fat while maintaining 100% of your muscle mass?)

Not trying to stir trouble, just interested in your thoughts.

My personal experience over the past 2 months or so on low-carb / higher protein diet + starting strength weight training:

Before I went on the diet and training regimen, I weighed 150 lbs and looked pretty bad. No real muscle anywhere and I had a pronounced 'spare tire' around the belly.

After two months, my chest is wider, my arms are a little bigger (not much), and I've lost almost all of the spare tire. I can see some abs trying to peek through as well. My weight after two months is 150 lbs as well. I have lost about an inch and a half around my waist. It went from about 32 to around 30. I can wear my size 29 pants I bought in Shanghai (though uncomfortably).

I would say that I've gained muscle mass while losing fat. There's no doubt in my mind that's what happened. The scale doesn't lie. I've been eating an average of about 2200 calories per day according to pretty strict fitday tracking. Training 3 days a week.

Sample size of 1 is never convincing, but when it's *you* it's pretty significant.

Originally Posted by turbozed

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My personal experience over the past 2 months or so on low-carb / higher protein diet + starting strength weight training:

Before I went on the diet and training regimen, I weighed 150 lbs and looked pretty bad. No real muscle anywhere and I had a pronounced 'spare tire' around the belly.

After two months, my chest is wider, my arms are a little bigger (not much), and I've lost almost all of the spare tire. I can see some abs trying to peek through as well. My weight after two months is 150 lbs as well. I have lost about an inch and a half around my waist. It went from about 32 to around 30. I can wear my size 29 pants I bought in Shanghai (though uncomfortably).

I would say that I've gained muscle mass while losing fat. There's no doubt in my mind that's what happened. The scale doesn't lie. I've been eating an average of about 2200 calories per day according to pretty strict fitday tracking. Training 3 days a week.

Sample size of 1 is never convincing, but when it's *you* it's pretty significant.

It sounds like you've adopted a pretty standard, conventionally successful method and it is working. I did the same. Kudos to us!

Getting in shape is not rocket science. But it takes work.

Originally Posted by blank

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It sounds like you've adopted a pretty standard, conventionally successful method and it is working. I did the same. Kudos to us!

Getting in shape is not rocket science. But it takes work.

It's not rocket science, but I think it was somewhat helpful to treat nutrition+training as a science (and indeed it is technically).

For me, going through studies on pubmed and reading books on metabolism really hammered the point home that the body is like a machine, and like machines it runs best when maintained and 'upgraded.' It's like back in the day when I used to be into cars. Once you understand the mechanisms going on in your body and how certain foods affect it, there's a more logical basis for being 'healthy.' Being confident that positive results *must* occur due to basic physical and chemical laws really got me going. Seeing the results keeps it going.

The same applies for weight training.

Originally Posted by erdawe

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If someone can read through this diet and think it's nutritionally and healthily sound; then I feel sorry for their lack of background knowledge to see through the smoke and mirrors. It won't be worth the time trying to get you to "see the light."

Which diet? You mean intermittent fasting or the OP's detox "master cleanse" diet?

Because I do not recommend the master cleanse diet at all.

Intermittent fasting isn't so much a diet as it is just a different way of eating. It can be done to gain or lose weight and mainly just debunks the whole idea of 5-6 small meals per day.

I did a 7 day fast earlier this year to try to cure a digestive ailment but it didn't do **** for me. I did 4 days on vege juices and the rest on the master cleanse mixture. I did salt water flushes every 2 days from the start. It sucked, I lost a good 5 pounds in 7 days (which is alot for me) and it didn't cure me of ****! Bunch of crap if you ask me. Just eat healthy foods if you want a healthy body.

Originally Posted by why

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Intermittent fasting isn't so much a diet as it is just a different way of eating. It can be done to gain or lose weight and mainly just debunks the whole idea of 5-6 small meals per day.

I no longer have to get up 3 am to slam down some cottage cheese to make sure I don't go all catabolic in the night?

Sweet.

lefty

Debunks how? It's way easier for skinny guys like me to get down 6 smaller meals throughout the day as opposed to 3 big ones, keeping calories, macros, etc. constant.

Originally Posted by why

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Intermittent fasting isn't so much a diet as it is just a different way of eating. It can be done to gain or lose weight and mainly just debunks the whole idea of 5-6 small meals per day.

Originally Posted by javyn

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Debunks how? It's way easier for skinny guys like me to get down 6 smaller meals throughout the day as opposed to 3 big ones, keeping calories, macros, etc. constant.

I'd say 99% of it is getting enough of the macros and in the proper ratio.

Timing is not too important unless it's related to lifestyle. If 6 meals works for you, that's good.