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America The Prudiful

WhatHeWears

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This Armani|Exchange ad was banned by Van Wagner because model Parker Gregory was showing his bare bum whilst dressing. What He Wears asks, Why are we so conservative in America?
 

Caomhanach

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Kevin Costner has a fetish for showing his ass onscreen.
It's gotten to the point a Costner film without his ass scene is missing something, like the hat Jimmy Stewart wore in all his westerns.
Now I ask you? Would you rather watch a Jimmy Stewart Movie or see Kevin's ass again?
 

Aperipan

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Originally Posted by Caomhanach
Kevin Costner has a fetish for showing his ass onscreen.
It's gotten to the point a Costner film without his ass scene is missing something, like the hat Jimmy Stewart wore in all his westerns.
Now I ask you? Would you rather watch a Jimmy Stewart Movie or see Kevin's ass again?


Tough one Chief.
lol8[1].gif
 

Go Surface

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We don't want to be reminded about how fat our asses are.
 

babygreenspots

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I've always found the complaints about American being prudish a bit odd. I guess it is meant simply to be a comparison to Western Europe? Obviously, most of the world hardly sees America as prudish. If anything, quite the opposite.
 

WhatHeWears

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Originally Posted by babygreenspots
I've always found the complaints about American being prudish a bit odd. I guess it is meant simply to be a comparison to Western Europe? Obviously, most of the world hardly sees America as prudish. If anything, quite the opposite.

I must admit this is the first time that I have heard a Non American say that American's are not prudish or conservative. Most European's that I have spoken with beg to differ. I heard them deem Americans to have prudish tendencies or come off a bit conservative. Then again it as been mostly Wester Europeans and or Italians or French.
 

ysc

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Even we britts, who I think historically have a reputation for being prudes regard the US as being rather conservative or prudish when it comes to this sort of thing.
The fact is that even though the US is home to a massive Appreciation industry, television like South Park and so on it is also home to a pretty large number, larger I think than in most Western European countries, of socially very conservative and prudish people. They also seem to have a disproportionally powerful voice and a strong effect on mainstream culture.
 

WhatHeWears

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Originally Posted by youngscientist
Even we britts, who I think historically have a reputation for being prudes regard the US as being rather conservative or prudish when it comes to this sort of thing.
The fact is that even though the US is home to a massive Appreciation industry, television like South Park and so on it is also home to a pretty large number, larger I think than in most Western European countries, of socially very conservative and prudish people. They also seem to have a disproportionally powerful voice and a strong effect on mainstream culture.


You are absolutely right
 

Milhouse

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I think the reason the US comes across as prudish is because of the huge amounts of shame and guilt that are associated with nudity and sexuality.

After spending time in some other countries, I realized just how much the US likes to hide anything related to sexuality like it is a dirty secret. Thus, media often uses innuendo as a substitute. When I think of very forthright displays of bikini girls, like on the Man Show, it seemed "over the top" to a lot of the US I think.

And I agree, in the US, the prudes have a lot of power for some reason.
 

babygreenspots

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All true, but this is really only in comparison to Western Europe and a tiny minority (the global cognitive elite) in the world's most cosmopolitan cities. This view isn't surprising given that Western Europe is the other major source, aside from America, of easily heard opinions in the global discourse.

A good 85% of the world fails to grasp these nuances and views America as the source of everything un-prudish and morally corrupting. That is to say, through the lens of most countries, the US and Western Europe are together on an extreme of non-traditionalism when it comes to sex, drugs, etc.

But maybe I'm just being argumentative. I'm aware that the view for at least six decades in the Northeast, California, Germany, the UK, North Europe, and France has been that the US shows an odd mix of extreme license and extreme prudery, and this view is based in reality. However, it is quite clearly directly tied to the US being more mired in (or blessed by) religion than the rich economies of Northern/Western Europe. Due to a complex set of factors involving the origin of the country and its evolution and just the fact that it is the only large rich country, the US does have both very conversative people and very liberal ones.

I just wanted to point out that the average person in 1. the Middle East, 2. China and India, 3. and the rest of Asia outside elites in Japan, HK, etc. would probably laugh at the notion that America is considered "prudish". Thus, most of the world disagrees with the position that many of us in the places that matter take for granted.

But I guess the interesting thing about America is that it shows some internal contradiction. It has both a bit of remaining prudishness and extreme liberation - often in the same person (isn't this where being Christian in the contemporary world inevitably leads?). Most of the world is just prudish. This make America more interesting, in my view. The debate about values for the future is occuring. America acknowledges both tradition and the need for change, when it comes to moral conventions.

As far as comparisons to Britain go, it is pretty much the global den of iniquity at the present moment. I guess I am one of the prudish Americans as well.
 

uhurit

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USA is prudish in comparison to western europe (just try the bible belt states) The reason is heavy residual religious influence, and consequently, feelings of guilt and impropriety associated with everything sexual. Europeans,OTH, are mostly religion-free
 

babygreenspots

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Originally Posted by uhurit
USA is prudish in comparison to western europe (just try the bible belt states) The reason is heavy residual religious influence, and consequently, feelings of guilt and impropriety associated with everything sexual. Europeans,OTH, are mostly religion-free

Of course, one cannot really say that Spain and Italy are "religion free" and Southern Europe really fits into its own category because women, according to most studies, much less equal than they are in the rest of the rich Western world including the US. So, essentially, the parts of the globe that are definitively more "progressive" than the US in sexual matters are probably somewhat smaller than the US in population.

I would have to suggest that Britain is exempted from the ranks of the "successfully progressive" due to its huge incidences of teenage pregnancy etc., which are not the result of racial issues as they, largely, are in the US. I submit that while Britain may be more sexually relaxed than the US, but it has also visibly suffered the consequences. It has not devised ways of handing this liberation.

So essentially, the countries that have the right to look down on the US (and really we're talking about the south and middle) for its vaunted sexual retrogressiveness and prudery are: France, Germany, the Low Countries, and the five Scandinavian countries. I think relative racial and cultural homogeny makes any kind of social issue easier to handle in these places.

My main point is that America's "prudery" is complex enough as to render very tenuous any statement that takes it for granted that all readers will accept the premise.
 

tiecollector

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Originally Posted by babygreenspots
I've always found the complaints about American being prudish a bit odd. I guess it is meant simply to be a comparison to Western Europe? Obviously, most of the world hardly sees America as prudish. If anything, quite the opposite.

Yeah I never got the whole prudish thing. Is it because some Americans might actually feel odd about walking down the street naked? Most the rest of the world promotes traditional institutions that some would call highly prudish, but I'd call sane and normal. One of the reasons the Muslim world hates us so much is that many view the West as deviant whores.
 

SwedishFish

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As a Swede who has lived in both rural and urban America, I agree with whoever said that urban America is as, if not more, liberated than Europe. Rural America is a different story. And by rural America I don't just mean the Midwest and Deep South; there are rural pockets in every state.

I think the Sarah Palin debate highlighted this dichotomy. All Bible and moral high horses and a pregnant teen daughter. Liberated Americans on the coasts just didn't know what to make of her, not to mention European news media who didn't understand how it was even possible for a woman who subscribes to a--according to their standards--medieval world view could be nominated to run for the second highest office in the country. All my fancy city-dwelling friends in the U.S. were embarrassed by Palin and called her a hypocrite. However, in rural Maine (where I lived at the time) she was the hottest thing ever. Someone who represented them and their experiences and worldview. I found that while many of these people hold prudish beliefs and conservative worldview, they are also very forgiving when people fail, e.g. in the case of teen pregnancies.

Ultimately, I think Christians tend to forgive and pray for people who make mistakes, not judge and condemn them. Secular intellectuals on the other hand are very quick to judge people who fail to stick to their principles. They especially love beating down on hypocritical Christians because they misunderstand the fundamental Christian notion that everyone is a sinner wherefore the Christian community can forgive and relate to members who give in to temptation, etc.
 

babygreenspots

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Originally Posted by SwedishFish
As a Swede who has lived in both rural and urban America, I agree with whoever said that urban America is as, if not more, liberated than Europe. Rural America is a different story. And by rural America I don't just mean the Midwest and Deep South; there are rural pockets in every state.

I think the Sarah Palin debate highlighted this dichotomy. All Bible and moral high horses and a pregnant teen daughter. Liberated Americans on the coasts just didn't know what to make of her, not to mention European news media who didn't understand how it was even possible for a woman who subscribes to a--according to their standards--medieval world view could be nominated to run for the second highest office in the country. All my fancy city-dwelling friends in the U.S. were embarrassed by Palin and called her a hypocrite. However, in rural Maine (where I lived at the time) she was the hottest thing ever. Someone who represented them and their experiences and worldview. I found that while many of these people hold prudish beliefs and conservative worldview, they are also very forgiving when people fail, e.g. in the case of teen abortions.

Ultimately, I think Christians tend to forgive and pray for people who make mistakes, not judge and condemn them. Secular intellectuals on the other hand are very quick to judge people who fail to stick to their principles. They especially love beating down on hypocritical Christians because they misunderstand the fundamental Christian notion that everyone is a sinner wherefore the Christian community can forgive and relate to members who give in to temptation, etc.


Very well put. Despite only being half Swedish and not knowing the language, it makes me proud to be a Swede. I hope you don't mind my claiming the title for this post.
 

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