Steed (E. DeBoise) Bespoke Suit, Odd Jacket, and Odd Vest Fittings (Winter 2009)

Very nice Vox. I especially like the shaple of the "skirt." BTW, did you request the shoulder treatment or is it Steed's house style? So you've pretty much nailed down the pattern here. Care to venture to LH at all?

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Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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Thank you.

Are you thinking of my DB dinner suit from Edwin that I posted a while ago in one of its fitting stages?

I've worn it a few times this season so far. I haven't posted pics yet because I'm thinking of putting together a trifecta thread with public and private dinner wear, and also a full dress event, from the last two months.

We'll see...I go back and forth on that one.


- B

That was the one. I look forward to this trifecta

Originally Posted by AndrewRogers

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That was the one. I look forward to this trifecta

The lynchpin of the thread concept is the full dress event...but it is kinda secret, so I'm not sure that I'll get around to posting it.

Not everything can become fodder for Internet entertainment.


- B

Fantastic photos B. Thanks for sharing them. The voyeur in me is now sated.

Originally Posted by dopey

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My favorite photo. I can't bring myself to get one of these, but it looks really cool. Were you even a little bit tempted to get rid of the basting thread and leave it this way, with the chalk marks?

The ghostly chalk outline of a DB waistcoat on the dark blue cloth looks really great. Maybe wear it once, to a party, and then send it off to be finished.

I'm glad I'm not the only one mentally disturbed enough to have thought this on seeing that photo...

Great stuff! I like the flannel DB the most.

Thanks for sharing this with us...all look very promissing. The idea of one piece back is very interesting and they certainly look great. Best thread in 2009 thus far.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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I think Edwin would normally match, but we were dealing with limited fabric here, so we'll see. I don't have a preference, but now that you have me thinking about it again, I might change my mind...
- B

Originally Posted by dopey

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Matching (where the lapel is laid on the body so all the lines line up) is always done with sewn-on shawl lapels on waistcoats. I can check when I am home, but I am pretty sure that my Dege tweed suit waistcoat has the lapels sewn on to look like they were folded (as if they were normal lapels). Of all my lapelled waistcoats from Dege, probably a half-dozen or so, only this one has any pattern more elaborate than a donegal.

After some reflection, I would do it this latter way if you are getting notch lapels on the waistcoat, but I am curious to hear of Edwin thinks otherwise.

I am now wistful for pleated patch pockets. By way of comfort, I still have the LL Gun Club and BoB, along with the Cooper tweed, waiting to be made up. The Gun Club will be a sportcoat, but it seems kind of chunky to carry much in the way of tailoring gadgetry. Your version is right. The Cooper needs a bit more of an edge to it, but the BoB, as you have noted, could also be a nice vehicle for some frippery.

Not the greatest photo, but in this example of my section 8 waistcoat, you can see that the pattern on the lapel is laid out to look like a traditional rolled lapel (though it is sewn on) rather than having the pattern line up perfectly.

You can't fool me. That's two vests overlapping!

Originally Posted by dopey

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Does this mean the lapels on the waistcoat will be sewn on, rather than rolled? Any reason? I like rolled with flannels, otherwise I leave it as tailor's choice.
I seem to be late to every party these days but the proper tailoring term for the different lapel constructions is "cut on" vs "grown on". I have older texts that show a cut on lapel with a under lapel dart to give it more roll, and I really don't know why this technique has fallen by the wayside.

I prefer "sewn on" v. "grown on." It rhymes, you see.

Originally Posted by Sator

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I seem to be late to every party these days but the proper tailoring term for the different lapel constructions is "cut on" vs "grown on". I have older texts that show a cut on lapel with a under lapel dart to give it more roll, and I really don't know why this technique has fallen by the wayside.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I prefer "sewn on" v. "grown on." It rhymes, you see.

I have heard manton's usage, but as sator describes it, grown on is the graft and cut on is "rolled", I think.

In any case, the "sewn on" technique is more interesting than you would think, at least as Dege does it. It is not just simply sewn. It is sort of like "short sheeted". I don't know how to describe this and pictures won't even help, but if you hve ever been to summer camp you will know what I mean.

Sator: would you mind posting the pages or descriptions from your text so I could have a precise understanding of what "cut on" and "grown on" mean?

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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Mostly, it is an artifact of this fitting stage.

But...the rest...is...drape! One of the abiding Internet conflicts!



Hmmm...are you also a fan of Lacedaemonian women?



I don't know...I'll be finding out! But jeffreyd has scared me off of anything except having someone hand press a jacket.



Yep...single pleat. I think that with trousers dedicated to being braced, pleats look better.



These jackets are as natural a shoulder as you will find. That's part of their A&S soft tailoring aesthetic...here I am pinching a shoulder on one of my DeBoise jackets:

The shoulders, again, are not roped.

It's funny, but there many critics of my softly tailored stuff who would like to see me in a more structured, "architectural" jacket, a la Dege or Huntsman. They think I could do the full, Spartan He-Man armor.

I don't know...I kinda like toning the bod down in tailored clothes...


- B

As far as I can tell, that is part of what gives tailored clothing its power.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I prefer "sewn on" v. "grown on." It rhymes, you see.

Are you trying to say you prefer your waistcoat lapels "cut on" rather than "grown on"? Or are you trying to say that you prefer the expression "sewn on" to "cut on"?

Originally Posted by Sator

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Are you trying to say you prefer your waistcoat lapels "cut on" rather than "grown on"? Or are you trying to say that you prefer the expression "sewn on" to "cut on"?

The expression.

For SB vest lapels, rolled is superior. For DB, it is a problem. The only way to roll them is to make the edges of the V opening dead straight. I prefer a cuve, which means they have to be sewn on.

FWIW, SR uses "grown on" v. "sewn on."