Denim 101 for Men's Clothing

I know precisely zero about denim, but as per yfyf's current "2009 plans" thread, one of my missions this year is to find a pair that actually fits me and looks good.

In that spirit, I offer these photos as a ritual sacrifice to the denim experts, to determine what kind of jeans I should look for in the future. On my short list to try on in the future if I can get them are: APC New Standards, Ironheart 634S (I really like the idea of a heavier denim to get a nicer drape) and maybe RLL slim fits. I'm just at the experimenting stage, trying to find a cut that suits me.

So, on to the macabre pics of where I am at the moment. In order, the pics are Diesel Larkee (30 waist, recent purchase, not hemmed/washed yet), Levis 501s (32 waist, about 3 years old), and Lee Brooklyns (30 waist, about 2 years old):





Help me!

^^^Well for starters, I'd wear them a little lower.

Originally Posted by Holdfast

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Help me!

Here are a few pointers.

1) As suggested, the jeans should sit lower. Unlike traditional trousers, they are not meant to sit at the true waist, but at the hips. You would probably be more comfortable starting with a mid rise, straightleg jean.

2) You can definitely size down on your jeans. The Diesels fit you best, but even they have excessive room in the waist, seat and thighs. Notice the bunching at the beltline. That should not be there for jeans that fit you.

3) If you are interested in Ironhearts, there is a UK outlet. As a first cut, I would definitely recommend you working with a good SA at a place that sells a lot of denim. UK prices are often stiffer than US, but getting your size and fit right is worth the premium. I don't really know good denim stores near Oxford or even in London, so someone else might wamt to chime in here. I like Browns, but it has been a while. The denim section at Selfridges is not bad either.

If you want a deal, and good returns, I would PM "Mauro" of Farinelli's. Brands that I would suggest are Rag&Bone (for "dressier" jeans), RRL (best jean for the money, bar none), and Jeanshop (good for a more rugged look - they size generously though - you might even take a 28 or lower in them.) Make sure that there is a good return/exchange policy if you are dealing with any online retailer at this point.

Cheers,

Fok.

Originally Posted by Brian278

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^^^Well for starters, I'd wear them a little lower.

+1. Otherwise, you end up with the dreaded mama jeans effect.

Selfridges is highly variable these days. It's the staff that are the main problem - most are clueless. Liberty have a similar range with much better staff. They carry Nudie, APC and some vintage Levi's as far as I can remember, maybe PRPS too.

+1 +1
I think they are all too big as well. I'd size down and go for a slimmer fit.

Originally Posted by Wes Bourne

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+1. Otherwise, you end up with the dreaded mama jeans effect.

Originally Posted by Brian278

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^^^Well for starters, I'd wear them a little lower.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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Here are a few pointers.

1) As suggested, the jeans should sit lower. Unlike traditional trousers, they are not meant to sit at the true waist, but at the hips. You would probably be more comfortable starting with a mid rise, straightleg jean.

I like where they sit as is. I have trouble understanding how jeans can have such prescriptive rules when they are inherently casual and thus should be wearable many different ways. Holdfast may not look fashionable or appealing to someone more knowledgeable about streetwear, but I don't think that should necessarily matter.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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I like where they sit as is. I have trouble understanding how jeans can have such prescriptive rules when they are inherently casual and thus should be wearable many different ways. Holdfast may not look fashionable or appealing to someone more knowledgeable about streetwear, but I don't think that should necessarily matter.
While it's true that the rules shouldn't be prescriptive and there are in fact many ways to wear jeans well, I think you're just being willfully contrarian, because none of those jeans look good worn the way he's wearing them. They're worn too fussily and sizing down an inch or two and letting them ride lower on the hips will be more flattering and more stylish. On the other hand, if you really want to wear them high on the waist, get a pair of LVC 1947 tagged at least 2" larger than your true waist, wear them high with a belt and cuffed at the ankle and pair them with a tucked in white t-shirt, a chore coat, and tweed cap and some high laced work boots. That might look pretty cool, though I doubt you're going for that look.

Originally Posted by Brian278

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Well for starters, I'd wear them a little lower.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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1) As suggested, the jeans should sit lower. Unlike traditional trousers, they are not meant to sit at the true waist, but at the hips. You would probably be more comfortable starting with a mid rise, straightleg jean.

The Diesels feel a lot lower rise than the other two, though I guess they're not massively lower. They're the Larkee model. Should I go for an even lower rise than this?

2) You can definitely size down on your jeans. The Diesels fit you best, but even they have excessive room in the waist, seat and thighs. Notice the bunching at the beltline. That should not be there for jeans that fit you.

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I was wrong on the waist of the Diesels - they're actually tagged 29 (not 30 as I originally posted) so I already sized down one from what I wear on tailored trousers. I tried on the 28, and while it felt better round the waist, it felt really tight around the thighs & (to a lesser extent) the crotch. Should I still size down to that level, with the expectation they would stretch?

3) If you are interested in Ironhearts, there is a UK outlet. As a first cut, I would definitely recommend you working with a good SA at a place that sells a lot of denim. UK prices are often stiffer than US, but getting your size and fit right is worth the premium. I don't really know good denim stores near Oxford or even in London, so someone else might wamt to chime in here. I like Browns, but it has been a while. The denim section at Selfridges is not bad either.

If you want a deal, and good returns, I would PM "Mauro" of Farinelli's. Brands that I would suggest are Rag&Bone (for "dressier" jeans), RRL (best jean for the money, bar none), and Jeanshop (good for a more rugged look - they size generously though - you might even take a 28 or lower in them.) Make sure that there is a good return/exchange policy if you are dealing with any online retailer at this point.

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I really want to try stuff on at the moment - since I know squat, I need to at least see how things look in the mirror. I have a few days off work still, so I can go to London & try Selfridges... do you know where the Ironhearts outlet in the UK is? I can't seem to google up a bricks& mortar location.


Seriously thanks guys; this is one area of dressing I feel totally out of my comfort zone and just want something that looks decent. Mafoo - I hear what you're saying but I guess when it comes to jeans I'm very open-minded about finding a look that feels right to me when looking in the mirror. So far, none of them seem to "feel" right when looking at that mirror, in the way I like the result when wearing tailored clothes. Now, maybe all jeans will have that result on me, but I'd like to try searching for something that might work before writing them off.

Originally Posted by Baron

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While it's true that the rules shouldn't be prescriptive and there are in fact many ways to wear jeans well, I think you're just being willfully contrarian, because none of those jeans look good worn the way he's wearing them.

I didn't say they all looked good in general; I said I saw nothing wrong with where on his waist they were being worn.

Holdfast, put simply they are too big in the waist. Can you wear them without a belt? Any good-fitting jean should be able to be worn without a belt, without the shirt tucked in.

You can't pay much attention to the tagged waist size on jeans, they vary extremely widely. I bet the pair which are tagged 29 measure much larger than that.

I like those Lees though, look like a good design.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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Here are a few pointers.

C., listen to ^.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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I didn't say they all looked good in general; I said I saw nothing wrong with where on his waist they were being worn.

Do not listen to ^.


- B

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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Holdfast, put simply they are too big in the waist. Can you wear them without a belt? Any good-fitting jean should be able to be worn without a belt, without the shirt tucked in.

The Diesels stay where they are without a belt but I think that's because they start off a bit lower so stay sitting on the top of the hips. The Levis pretty much need the belt to stay put; the Lees sag down a bit but not much.

It's a bit annoying; if these were regular trousers, I'd get the waist on the Diesels taken in, and the seat slimmed down and I'd be reasonably happy with their fit. But you can't tailor jeans like this... right?

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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Do not listen to ^

What's with everyone wanting to wear their jeans on their hips? The real problems with Holdfast's jeans are that they are too roomy in the thigh and too long. If they were trimmer and had less break, they'd look very neat--appropriate for a guy that likes to dress in classic attire.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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What's with everyone wanting to wear their jeans on their hips?
Because this is how they are meant to be worn - i.e. this is how the designers draw them and how the patterns are cut.