Toronto restaurant recommendation

I'm probably a little late on the train here.... but I ate at a restaurant in Toronto called Mildred Pierce once and it was quite good. Inexpensive French fare, wonderful torchon of foie gras with a quince paste as an appetizer, fantastic salad, and a succulent duck breast for an entree. It was also fairly inexpensive for the quality.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Oh, I think "love" has never had anything to do with his life, nor ever been part of it. It would explain much of what we read, wouldn't it?

Irony is so hard to do on the web

Originally Posted by A Y

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It was mentioned that Toronto has a better ballet company. Perhaps that's true for classical stuff (though NBoC has had its share of trouble), but Montreal has more interesting and equally accomplished dance companies: Les Grands Ballets Canadiens and La La La Human Steps, to name two. --Andre
Andre, I think the NBOC is superb company, especially for the classics. I saw LGBC two years ago and was surprised at the quality and elegance of their classical technique. The men (!), were especially fine. Previously, it was 20 years prior (Four Temperaments). Was not nearly as polished as my last visit. As for La La La, Google G Spot Tornado (Zappa). Amazing moves.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Whooooa....you're just getting too clever for me.

Well, the laughing smiley was supposed to indicate sharing the joke.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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I notice quite a few of you self-proclaimed therapists like to use the term..."the problem with..." & "your problem is..." a lot. Can I send you my address so you can bill me? I feel guilty.

I am professionally unqualified to accept payment -- therefore you may enjoy my insights, such as you find them, gratis.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Oh...but I am well versed in the many varied versions of Toronto hating (most of my childhood was not spent in Toronto, and I've traveled extensively). 905 hate is different from northern Ontario hate, which is different from rural Ontario hate (Prince Edward County doesn't officially hate Toronto...they just hate anybody in their county who isn't "county" ). Then there's First Nations hate. And that only takes care of a very generalized sweep Ontario.

Peggers aren't too infected, and I've never really detected anything particular about Prairie hate.

Alberta hate (the Bible Belt of Canada for those not in the know) is a mixture of just compulsory generalized "Canadian" Toronto hate (I believe this is subliminally taught in kindergarten in all non-Toronto schools), mixed with self-righteous born-again moral hate, separation anxiety hate (they think we are just too far away), and a healthy dose of selfish hate..."now that we are a "have" province, we don't want to give a penny to anyone else", including Albertans not worthy...hence the one-way bus tickets to Vancouver hilarity (this is not specialized Toronto hate really...more just non-Alberta hate). Edmonton is noticeably more easy going about this than Calgary (who thinks a rodeo is the cultural highlight of Canada).

B.C. hate is again some separation anxiety hate, plus they assume we are just all tight-assed Bay Street Bankers. Vancouverites tend to get really pissed off if they actually make it to Toronto to find this stereotype a myth, and there are actually way more bohemian, arty types here than BC, although reprogramming seems to be very easy once they return to Vancouver.

Maritimers don't tend to hate anybody. They may be a bit "wary" of Toronto, but would much rather just make fun of you. I find Maritimers expect to be a fish out of water when they hit the "Big Smoke" ahead of time, but also expect to get a job. (A big Canadian FAIL to you, if you haven't seen Goin' Down the Road).

There's a big difference between Quebec hate and Montreal hate. Quebec (sans Mtl) hates Toronto by default, as it's the alpha city of english Canada, in Ontario, which also contains the federal govt. This isn't silly hate like the rest of the country...it's some serious, emotional hate.

Montreal is not dominated by english hate (in fact, they have just as much of an issue with the rest of Que). Their superior attitude actually had some basis back a million years ago when the two cities actually had something resembling a rivalry going on. But Toronto has left them so far in the dust, that we just couldn't be bothered anymore. They still think this is going on of course, and realizing we just don't see them as any serious competition really gets them mad. To add insult to injury, we don't even make an effort to return the hate...we actually like Montreal and say so. The ones that see this as a condescending pat on the head get extra special crispy pissed. he he

Evidently I have "misunderestimated" you -- I'll leave denizens of the various other regions to address the specific segments that refer to them. I am, naturally, interested in a more thorough description of "905 hate" ...

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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I think you make for a fabulous suburbanite, but from where I'm standing...you can keep it too (and at least it isn't Milton or Brampton).

While I understand that you intend this as "damning with faint praise", I will take it as a compliment nonetheless. The very unspecialness of Burlington is what makes it desireable for my purposes -- should you wonder why, I refer you merely to T.S Eliot's comments about poetry, emotion, and personality ...

freshcutgrass makes my head hurt. Has anyone actually read his rants in their entirety?

Originally Posted by GQgeek

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freshcutgrass makes my head hurt. Has anyone actually read his rants in their entirety?

I always skim.

I did apologize to you earlier but you are just looking like a raving lunatic of late.

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Are you under the delusion that apologizing entitles you to continue posting nonsense at will, without opposition? That's what bugs you (and a couple others)...you expect to get away with it, and act like babies when you don't. What exactly were you apologizing for? If I ever said anything about you personally that was either untrue or hurt your feelings...I apologize....push your buttons a bit...sure, but be nasty...not my style.

But I certainly don't apologize for disagreeing with you.

You've made these two lengthy, pretty weird posts about some "game", enumerating all the different kinds of 'hate' in Canada

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That humour was not intended for you, and was destined to go over your head.

As Kwilk says, no one really cares, and you're trying to make this a global issue while it really isn't.

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Ah...Kwilk. Isn't this the same guy who has the same response to everything that mentions Canada..."it's Canada, who gives a ****" ? You'll just have to excuse me for having the same attitude about Kwilk. There's nothing "global" about it...you typed something...I disagreed with it. Don't like it, then perhaps thinking twice before typing nonsense might be a reasonable suggestion. Just because you think being anonymous on some chat board means it's a free-for-all.

Also, Yorkville's little shopping district is about a quarter of a kilometer long.

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Hmmm...I'm sure Yonge, Bloor, Ave Rd, Davenport is a slightly larger in area than you suggest....the Bloor-Yorkville BIA describes it as 27 blocks, over 700 shops and millions of sqft of retail space, so I don't think it's quite the slouch you make out.

But I wasn't talking about that anyway...I said it had a more pleasant and charming atmosphere than I found on Madison, Fifth, Mag Mile, Rodeo. It's an actual 150 year old village, with leafy, narrow streets/walkways/mews, Yorkville Park, old converted victorian houses, a nice mixed-use (retail, food, spas, galleries, hotels, residential), plus festivals that give it a certain "buzz" (Sante, Ice fest, Tiff, etc).

Clearly you think it's incredible so there's no need to keep this discussion going.

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Well, then clearly you haven't been able to keep up. As I've mentioned already, not agreeing with some of the the absurd comments that it "sucks" does not ipso facto mean I'm saying it is "incredible" or the "best in the world". And you're calling me manic and psychotic? Com'on.

Well, the laughing smiley was supposed to indicate sharing the joke.

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Is there an emoticon to get the point across that you should know that I know you know?

I am professionally unqualified to accept payment -- therefore you may enjoy my insights, such as you find them, gratis.

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You must learn to accept and embrace my masochistic tendencies.

While I understand that you intend this as "damning with faint praise", I will take it as a compliment nonetheless.

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Well, you should. Joking is fun, but I know first hand that some people are just not "wired" for inner-city life (depends on what point they are in life, and what kind of city it is). People gotta live where they are happy...my opinion doesn't matter. Personally, I like the country, and I like the inner city. The Burbs represent nothing but compromise to me, and therefore would drive me batty. I'm by no means a tree-hugger, but I do believe in the benefits that sustainable living brings, so I also hate the burbs on those philosophical grounds as well.

I am, naturally, interested in a more thorough description of "905 hate" ...

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Well, this means I'm going to have to start getting very specific, as the 905 "micro inter-regional" hate is quite complex. My work has seen me extensively in the 905 and beyond (I'm in the geo-exhange business). The margin or error is probably small, as I get a good exposure to a cross section of the demographic (home owners, retailers, developers, trades people...even their dreaded offspring and pets). Take Milton for instance...their hate is just plain old simple racist hate. Toronto is the epitome of "ethnic", and that's about the extent of it. Milton is like the white supremest capital of the 905. What I've heard come out of the mouths of people in Milton reminds me of the kind of stuff I used to hear as a kid in small-town southern Ontario...politically correct as a concept, has somehow bypassed Milton completely. When I hear this, i do what does not come naturally to me...I say nothing....it would be pointless. Mississauga...the city of mall-envy. This keeps them wary of Toronto's malls on a constant basis, but they feel pretty good about Square One, so these days they have been laying low. It helps them by feeling pretty smug about that walking mummy of a mayor they have. Will be pretty short lived though, as they are now switching their focus to transit-envy. Since building a "downtown" based on a mall has been highly successful in terms of development (if not in terms of charm), the idea that they "forgot" to build any transit infrastructure for a city that is 3/4 of a million people, and still growing fast is beginning to sound like it may not have been a good idea after all in terms of urban planning. Property tax is already higher then toronto, and will get much worse if they plan to spend the mega-billions it takes to build. In the meantime, traffic is worse in Missy than downtown toronto by a wide margin. Note...south Miss does not count (Port Credit, Clarkson, Lorne Park)...I put them in the Oakville category (below). Oakville...they are too secure and confident to hate. Oakville may no longer be the "richest city in Canada", but somebody forgot to tell them. Oakville likes being Oakville, and is quite happy with its proximity to Toronto (far enough to not effect it, but close enough to get to when they want). Brampton...they don't have an opinion one way or the other. They are too busy trying to avoid the reality that they live a city devoid of a single positive aspect. It has no culture (high or low), don't seem interested in any sports, it doesn't have a single structure of any architectural note, and doesn't even have any interesting natural geography. Brampton should be bulldozed, and it's inhabitants relocated to Mississauga, and reforested for annexation as estates and farms for Caledon. Caledon/King City... no hate there...no threat from Toronto out here...it's rural. Plus, most are just Torontonians with estates or hobby farms. Georgina...can't hate...there are no people here....just cows, horses and golf courses. Livestock don't hate Toronto since they got rid of the Stockyards (although they do still have nightmares). Vaughan/Richmond Hill/Markham...the hate is focused on the 905 Chinese lifestyle vs the old-school 416 Chinese lifestyle. Pickering...gotta borrow a phrase from Kwilk on this one...it's Pickering...who gives a ****. Oh, so your probably wondering about Burlington? Well, Burlington is a special case (the basket kind I'm afraid). Burlington only suffers from low level "nervous" hate. The reason for this, is they are hopelessly confused. Are they part of the 905...yes are they part of the CMA...no are they part of the GTA...yes. officially part of Durham, but unofficially part of Hamilton. You can't figure out how to hate Toronto, because you can't figure out if you are even a Toronto suburb or not....you're in some kind of bizarre Golden Horseshoe Twilight Zone. There you are, nice bucolic, confident Oakville on one side...a "real" gritty but well established blue collar city on the other side (and trying not to notice redneck Milton to the north of you). You can't really even embrace the lake, as it's only feature is the dreaded "Skyway". Burlington needs to be sliced up and the pieces sold off to the highest bidders in the surrounding municipalities and put you poor confused people out of your misery. Now please...do not ask me to start evaluating the the inner 416 self-hate.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Hmmm...I'm sure Yonge, Bloor, Ave Rd, Davenport is a slightly larger in area than you suggest....the Bloor-Yorkville BIA describes it as 27 blocks, over 700 shops and millions of sqft of retail space, so I don't think it's quite the slouch you make out.

I think he's talking about high-end shopping. After all, where can you get EGs in Toronto?

Damn - I didn't know this mushroomed to 7 pages.

I went to all those places and I'm surprised no one mentioned more financial district places like Far Niente, Ki, Reds, Vertical, and Tundra. I find most high end places in Toronto serve pretty typical fare (fish, pasta, some kind of meat with a claim it's wild, vegetarian, etc.)

If I want a quiet place, I usually try something like Starfish. (The Thirsty Traveler does it after all!) Susur Lee is an experience - last time I went he cooks whatever he can find at T&T (or some other place) that day so you have to eat his menu.

But uhh...great - now Torontonians are likely going to just scare non-Torontonians away

Originally Posted by audiophilia

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Andre, I think the NBOC is superb company, especially for the classics. I saw LGBC two years ago and was surprised at the quality and elegance of their classical technique. The men (!), were especially fine. Previously, it was 20 years prior (Four Temperaments). Was not nearly as polished as my last visit. As for La La La, Google G Spot Tornado (Zappa). Amazing moves.

I would love to see LGBC in a classical piece, but I've only seen them do modern stuff (Naharin's Minus Zero), in which they were fantastic. Last time I saw La La La was their Amjad, which had a subtly amplified string quartet wandering the stage while the dancers were doing their thing. Gavin Bryars deconstructed and reconstituted the Tchaikovsky ballets for the string quartet. It was one of the most theatrical productions I've seen. I also have their Amelia dance film on DVD (and coming out on Blu Ray in 5 days!), and love their eclectic use of music with amped up classical dance technique.

Here's the opening of Amelia for those interested:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags.
--Andre

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Take Milton for instance...their hate is just plain old simple racist hate. Toronto is the epitome of "ethnic", and that's about the extent of it. Milton is like the white supremest capital of the 905. What I've heard come out of the mouths of people in Milton reminds me of the kind of stuff I used to hear as a kid in small-town southern Ontario...politically correct as a concept, has somehow bypassed Milton completely. When I hear this, i do what does not come naturally to me...I say nothing....it would be pointless.
.

I thought Georgetown was where the white supremists were.

Originally Posted by freshcutgrass

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Ah...Kwilk. Isn't this the same guy who has the same response to everything that mentions Canada..."it's Canada, who gives a ****" ? You'll just have to excuse me for having the same attitude about Kwilk. There's nothing "global" about it...you typed something...I disagreed with it. Don't like it, then perhaps thinking twice before typing nonsense might be a reasonable suggestion. Just because you think being anonymous on some chat board means it's a free-for-all.

It's a joke, eh guy? I've been to Toronto twice, and thought it was a great town. I've been to Montreal before and thought it was a better town.

But honestly, who gives a ****? Do you not find it a bit ridiculous to get into a pissing contest over who has the better city? It's entirely asinine, and is something that comes down to an opinion, not debatable facts.

I live in Montreal and I always enjoy going to Toronto. I look forward to moving there when I am back from my trip. The fact of the matter is that few people will ever exhaust the options either city offers (it takes lots of money to do that). I love food, and I love going out to restaurants, but I'll never be able to afford it as often as I'd like. Montreal is an absolutely fantastic food city, but I'm sure i'd get by just fine in Toronto. Is the MSO better than the TSO? Maybe (never compared), but I'm not such an anal snob that I couldn't enjoy the TSO. I'm not a huge sports fan so I almost don't care about that at all. I do hope to get back in to sailing at some point, one day with a boat of my own, and sailing in Lake Ontario is much better than the Saint-Laurence (can you say tack a lot?).

When you combine all that with the much great employment possibilities Toronto offers, it's really a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by GQgeek

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Is the MSO better than the TSO? Maybe (never compared), but I'm not such an anal snob that I couldn't enjoy the TSO. I'm not a huge sports fan so I almost don't care about that at all. I do hope to get back in to sailing at some point, one day with a boat of my own, and sailing in Lake Ontario is much better than the Saint-Laurence (can you say tack a lot?).

When you combine all that with the much great employment possibilities Toronto offers, it's really a no-brainer.

I always assumed TSO was the premier orchestra in Canada but that's my being ignorant (I do own TSO season subscriptions). I would say you'll have an easy time moving from Montreal to Toronto provided you're not a francophone coming from rural Quebec. I'm not too sure about employment possibilities. There are net more jobs here than in Quebec but you have heard that we're the one province that keeps suffering 5 digit job losses month after month right?

My favourite thing about Toronto is you hear a different foreign language every day (not necessarily French).

A former Montreal branch manager at our workplace perhaps says it best. He said it took him years to figure out what his employee's spouses did for a living during the annual Christmas parties. Apparently, he said that it was not fashionable for people to talk about work outside of work. The first day he moved to a Toronto suburb, his neighbour walks up to him and asks two questions: What's your name and what do you do [for a living]? He said in Toronto, for whatever reason, what you do seems to define you. Anyway, thought that might be insightful.