The secret to success with women

Originally Posted by m@T

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In that regard it is just a numbers game about plucking up the courage. You could make a point that we should all have learned that **** growing up, and you are probably right, but at the same time, we all know the feeling.
I cannot go up to a woman and initiate a conversation with her at random. It doesn't make a difference if she is 500 lbs and using three bar stools. Still cannot do it. It induces a mind blowing amount of fear and anxiety in me -- even if I am already drunk. Usually when I go to a bar with friends a girl will walk over and start talking to me, which helps break the ice. I am fine in pretty much all other social situations.

Originally Posted by m@T

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oh he has a major boner for Nantucket Red
I can neither confirm nor deny.

Originally Posted by m@T

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I dunno Mike. I mean - and as I noted above - I am not a member of the PUA community in any sense, but I do think there is something to be said for it...
I'll grant you that. After reading this thread again, I am surprised at the anxiety displayed (see below). I had no idea that so many guys had such trouble with this. I am sincerely sorry if I've offended or demeaned anyone by my posts; it was unintended.

Originally Posted by username79

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I cannot go up to a woman and initiate a conversation with her at random. It doesn't make a difference if she is 500 lbs and using three bar stools. Still cannot do it. It induces a mind blowing amount of fear and anxiety in me -- even if I am already drunk. Usually when I go to a bar with friends a girl will walk over and start talking to me, which helps break the ice. I am fine in pretty much all other social situations.

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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I can neither confirm nor deny.

I'll grant you that. After reading this thread again, I am surprised at the anxiety displayed (see below). I had no idea that so many guys had such trouble with this. I am sincerely sorry if I've offended or demeaned anyone by my posts; it was unintended.
No, not at all, at least in my case. It is something I've recognized and worked around. I really I am very different from some people and very similar to others. If I select two random friends, I have one who walks up to a different girl every night of the week at a bar and ends up taking her home easily (even though he is married) and one who is exactly like me -- petrified of random conversations. I have a friend who has a few Ferraris, Aston Martins, travels all over the world, could easily offer the "you'll never have to work again honey" thing, and is a person who women consider good looking -- but was screwed over by his girlfriend in college and is petrified of talking to women or being in relationships -- and is no closer to being with someone than he was 10 years ago. I can walk into a corporate function, identify the highest executive in a room, and go initiate a lengthy (and productive for my career) conversation with ease. On other hand, I can't walk up to a 500 lb. jabba-the-hut-looking woman in a bar and start a conversation. It comes naturally to some folks but is extremely difficult for others. On the other hand, I find "The Game" and the whole pick up step thing as ridiculous as most of you.

Originally Posted by username79

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I cannot go up to a woman and initiate a conversation with her at random. It doesn't make a difference if she is 500 lbs and using three bar stools. Still cannot do it. It induces a mind blowing amount of fear and anxiety in me -- even if I am already drunk. Usually when I go to a bar with friends a girl will walk over and start talking to me, which helps break the ice. I am fine in pretty much all other social situations.

Actually, this is the hardest part for me. It really depends on the situation, who I'm with, how much alcohol I've consumed, and how many people/who those people are that she's with.

I have a lot of apprehension going up to very attractive girls in large groups, it's easier if I have some guy friends with me and someone starts a conversation. If she's alone, I'm drunk enough, and with enough ribbing from my friends I would go up to a pretty girl. Like I said before, the initial "hello" is the hardest part.

I guess that's why those PUA's say to go up to the girl within 3 seconds of seeing her, kind of keeps you from thinking too much...also doesn't let you come up with anything interesting to strike a conversation with unless you use those gimmicky PUA lines they expect you to memorize.

My current girlfriend actually came up to me at the bar which helped to alleviate my issue. I was also extremely...extremely drunk....

Originally Posted by username79

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I can walk into a corporate function, identify the highest executive in a room, and go initiate a lengthy (and productive for my career) conversation with ease. On other hand, I can't walk up to a 500 lb. jabba-the-hut-looking woman in a bar and start a conversation.
So what's the difference?
If you (figuratively) step on ********* talking to the exec, your career prospects might dim.
If you do that with the random female, you won't be doing the horizontal mombo with her, but there are other fish in the sea.

A question for the anxious among us: is it easier to initiate conversation with a female if your goal is NOT to bone her?

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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A question for the anxious among us: is it easier to initiate conversation with a female if your goal is NOT to bone her?

A DEFINITE yes!!!

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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So what's the difference? If you (figuratively) step on ********* talking to the exec, your career prospects might dim. If you do that with the random female, you won't be doing the horizontal mombo with her, but there are other fish in the sea. A question for the anxious among us: is it easier to initiate conversation with a female if your goal is NOT to bone her?
Yes. So there is no logic to it as you pointed out. If I could choose not to have the fear and anxiety, I certainly would. For the second question, yes. But it is not easy to communicate that -- if you are a bar it is assumed that there is that intention. So what do you say, "Hi, I'm just looking for a friend?" I actually never approach a woman at a bar, etc. with the intention of sleeping with her immediately -- I figure the chicks that are that easy are the ones that will make my piss burn in the morning, or worse.

Originally Posted by username79

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So what do you say, "Hi, I'm just looking for a friend?"
Never say this; even if it is the truth. Almost every woman I know will deny this, but they want to get laid as much as you do. Most of them are just pretty coy about it. If you say you just want to be a friend you're doomed to a life of wingman-hood. Just talk and listen. She might take you home with her. Happens to me often.

Originally Posted by username79

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I actually never approach a woman at a bar, etc. with the intention of sleeping with her immediately -- I figure the chicks that are that easy are the ones that will make my piss burn in the morning, or worse.
If I've been talking to a gal for awhile and feel kind of a vibe going on, I'll look her right in the eye and tell her I want to bone her. Even if I don't really. Sometimes I'll even say "bone". You'd be surprised how often brutal honesty delivers.

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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A question for the anxious among us: is it easier to initiate conversation with a female if your goal is NOT to bone her?

Actually I find this to be true as well. Since I started seriously dating my current girlfriend I've found myself getting friendlier with some of the good looking co-workers of mine. Just little conversations when walking by, grabbing coffee or lunch, emails etc. I also had a fantastic and long conversation with an extremely attractive girl I met at a Holiday party the other night. I feel like there's no pressure or sexual tension at all since I'm not looking to bone and they know I have a serious girlfriend.

Originally Posted by whiteslashasian

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I feel like there's no pressure or sexual tension at all since I'm not looking to bone and they know I have a serious girlfriend.
You realize you've been marked, right? Women do that to warn off potential rivals. I used to think it had something to do with pheromones, like a dog pissing on the yard, but I've since come to realize it is just fabric softener.

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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You realize you've been marked, right? Women do that to warn off potential rivals. I used to think it had something to do with pheromones, like a dog pissing on the yard, but I've since come to realize it is just fabric softener.

Haha, that explains why my clothes have been feeling a bit softer...I hope she hasn't been sneaking it into my dress shirt loads!

^it is everywhere. This is what they do.

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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A question for the anxious among us: is it easier to initiate conversation with a female if your goal is NOT to bone her?

Trick question. One would not be inclined to initiate a conversation (outside a business setting) with a female they do not intend to bone.

Rube is right about the fabric softener, not sure my gf even uses it on any clothes except mine. Now this could also lead into why women talk to you more when you are taken, maybe it's something along the lines of the other thread that we have running.

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=94458

Maybe all the single guys looking for action should just go and buy fabric softener.

I have been involved in the PUA community for about 4 years now - before "the game" brought an insane amount of attention to it. Before that I definitely had low self-esteem & no confidence in myself when it came to women. I always settled for girls who were not as attractive as what I really wanted, because i felt like those were the only types of women I could get. Other than women, my life was pretty well together. I have a great family, and amazing friends. I have never been arrested, I don't have any kids or ex-wives. I had a good job that some would consider cool & interesting (graphic design). I was a social guy and I went out with my friends a lot - I was definitely in the bar scene and I enjoyed it. All-in-all I was very happy. Just not when it came to women. Like someone else said in this thread, the thought of even approaching a 300-pound woman in a bar gave me intense anxiety and fear.

fast forward a few years to after I found the community - basically it injected a lot of self-confidence in me. I realized that I really was a catch and I just needed to put in a little bit of effort, put myself out there so that women could see what I had to offer. I started dating the women that I wanted to date, I was having the type of success that I once thought wasn't possible for me.

I started out using some "canned" material, aka the lines & routines that critics tend to fixate on. However this was just something to get me started in conversation, something to get my foot in the door. Once I was up and going the conversation would lead to real things, spontaneous stuff - like I said before I had a good life and I was social so I had no problem carrying a real conversation with someone once I got past the initial approach. Before long most of my "routines & techniques" were just real anecdotes from my real-life, crafted to be funny & engaging, similar to how a comedian develops his material.

People who learn about PUA's and the community always tend to see the worst side of it and think its a bunch of douchebag guys with nothing to offer running canned routines & slimey techniques on women. In fairness there ARE some dudes like that out there, maybe even the majority of guys - but there are a lot of great men who just need some help. I believe I was the type of guy that the community was made to help. Now I do not use any canned material or routines or techniques, I simply walk up to a woman if I feel like talking to her and say "Hi". Sometimes I will even say something like "I just had to come talk to you, I think you are so attractive". Basically violating PUA-logic by giving a compliment. Anyway, it doesn't matter, because I have gotten to the point where I'm confident enough to do that and if I get rejected I don't take it personally. I know that I'm a catch, I have an amazing life, and any woman that takes the time to get to know me will usually develop strong feelings for me. I have met both ends of the spectrum, the dudes who make me ashamed to be a part of the community, and guys who have multiple degrees from ivy league schools & who put me to shame in terms of personality. When used by the right person, this stuff is a godsend. In the hands of the wrong person, it can be a destructive weapon. Fortunately women have a pretty good instinct when it comes to spotting the genuine from the fake.