• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Demise of the 7-fold

voxsartoria

Goon member
Timed Out
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
25,700
Reaction score
180
Originally Posted by Felix Krull
I do regret if I have offended your authority in this arena. It certainly was not my intent.

Offended? Not at all, nor am I an authority on anything other than what I have experienced myself. I'm genuinely curious, and it would be great if you could post some photos, particularly of the back, of these ties.

Originally Posted by Will
I have some real unlined Kiton sevens but they stopped making them almost a decade ago.

Interesting...I missed out.

Originally Posted by mafoofan
Are they true seven-folds or unlined six-folds? I believe all the Rubinacci 'seven-folds' are really six-folds, as is typical with Italian makers.

Fascinating...that has a nice plausible symmetry to it...that is, that the Rubinacci is simply an unlined six. Did you disect the tie that you tortured?

- B
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,705
Reaction score
9,841
Originally Posted by voxsartoria
Fascinating...that has a nice plausible symmetry to it...that is, that the Rubinacci is simply an unlined six. Did you disect the tie that you tortured?

There was no dissecting, but I've casually peeled apart the folds to take a glimpse inside. If you do the same, you'll see that the corners folded inside are not 90 degrees.
 

voxsartoria

Goon member
Timed Out
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
25,700
Reaction score
180
Originally Posted by mafoofan
There was no dissecting, but I've casually peeled apart the folds to take a glimpse inside. If you do the same, you'll see that the corners folded inside are not 90 degrees.

Awesome. Nice work.


- B
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
So what about Borrelli? I've a couple of Borrelli ties that are supposedly seven fold. Any idea if they are real seven folds? Thanks...
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,705
Reaction score
9,841
Originally Posted by Metlin
So what about Borrelli? I've a couple of Borrelli ties that are supposedly seven fold. Any idea if they are real seven folds? Thanks...

I have one and it isn't. Definitely not unlined. A lined true seven-fold is likely to be very bulky tie.
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by mafoofan
I have one and it isn't. Definitely not unlined. A lined true seven-fold is likely to be very bulky tie.
Thanks. That's what I thought, too. It didn't seem as bulky for a 7 fold. Then again, I did not buy it because it was a 7 fold, so I guess it's all good.
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
26,705
Reaction score
9,841
Originally Posted by Metlin
Thanks. That's what I thought, too. It didn't seem as bulky for a 7 fold. Then again, I did not buy it because it was a 7 fold, so I guess it's all good.

Well, as it's been pointed out, being seven-fold has nothing to do with being a good tie. I like J. Press's four fold regimentals myself. If only they made them shorter and narrower.
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by mafoofan
Well, as it's been pointed out, being seven-fold has nothing to do with being a good tie. I like J. Press's four fold regimentals myself. If only they made them shorter and narrower.
Agreed. I've a couple of BB regimentals; none from J. Press, though. I also like some of the HSM ties. They make some rather interesting patterns.
 

voxsartoria

Goon member
Timed Out
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
25,700
Reaction score
180
Originally Posted by Metlin
So what about Borrelli? I've a couple of Borrelli ties that are supposedly seven fold. Any idea if they are real seven folds? Thanks...

All the ones that I have seen are lined sixes.

Signs of a lined six are:

- Tipping...ie, a extra bit of fabric at the back on the point. Sevens invariably have handkerchief edges with a handsewn roll or fold, with the picks visible from the front at the point.

- Bilaterally symmetrical folds on the back...think even number. Six folds, not seven.

- And most importantly, if you feel the tie, you will feel the lining. Some are minimal, like most Kitons, and others more substantial.

Here is a basic way that a seven is made.

Here is a common way that a lined six is made.


- B
 

voxsartoria

Goon member
Timed Out
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
25,700
Reaction score
180
Originally Posted by mafoofan
Well, as it's been pointed out, being seven-fold has nothing to do with being a good tie. I like J. Press's four fold regimentals myself. If only they made them shorter and narrower.

British makers, like Drake's, are quite happy with lined threes, and they are terrific ties.

One can prefer the feel of one to the other, but claims of superiority for any type is a stretch.

I like sevens the most myself.


- B
 

Felix Krull

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
151
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by lee_44106
My word, the nerves of Dillards, one of those cheap and ubiquitous mall department stores. Next thing you know, they are going to start cutting buttonholes into the sleeves of jackets.

What is this world coming to when the well-off cannot enjoy something exclusive?


Your attempt at humor however misplaced is quite droll. I do regret that if these Daniel Cremieux ties are true 7-folds that the mystique behind the 7-fold will diminish. That was the intent of my original post. For in much the same way as a BMW or Mercedez is now accessible to anyone with a job earning more than $10/hr, when something becomes readily obtainable by a broader array of people, it's inherent worth subsequently declines.

Like most others on this forum, I take pride in my knowledge and appreciation of habiliments and it is frankly disturbing that an accessory that was once famed for its expense and exclusivity shall fall to a lesser perch.

Alas, it is ignoble to desire what few already possess. It is a fault of mine I grant you, but I suspect I alone do not suffer from it.
 

Metlin

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
20
Originally Posted by Felix Krull
That was the intent of my original post. For in much the same way as a BMW or Mercedez is now accessible to anyone with a job earning more than $10/hr, when something becomes readily obtainable by a broader array of people, it's inherent worth subsequently declines.
That is a poor way to look at it, IMHO. As society progresses, what was once exclusive to the elites is now available to the masses. It happens with just about everything. Personally, I don't see the worth of something declining simply because more people use it.
 

Felix Krull

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
151
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by Metlin
That is a poor way to look at it, IMHO. As society progresses, what was once exclusive to the elites is now available to the masses.

It happens with just about everything.

Personally, I don't see the worth of something declining simply because more people use it.


Well I could give you countless examples where that is simply not the case. For it's merely a matter of simple market economics. When something is more precious or in shorter supply it has an inherently higher worth. That is the fundamental principle undergirding brand marketing. Why should I pay Robert Talbott $200 - $300 for one of their 7's when I could go to Dillards, wait for a half-off sale, and pick one up for $60.

As many of the previous posters have illumninated, true 7-fold ties have traditionally been somewhat scarce and not at all mass produced. In essence, you had to know where to look for them. That is partly why I was so shocked to see them in such a "common" place as Dillards. Part of the joy of owning a 7-fold tie, something that 90% of other men (colleageues and competitors alike)did not own, has now been lost.

If you think back 25 years, owning a custom suit meant you went to a tailor and had it made just for you. Now owning a custom suit can mean you just saw your local Tom James salesman! Opening up markets not only dilutes the prestige of the product, but also degrades it as an item of value.
 

FIHTies

Distinguished Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
2,950
Reaction score
6
As has been said by Vox, the Italian term Sette Pieghe which we know to translate the "seven Fold" is generally used for the Six fold, Lined and all that.

That being said, depending on the silk being used I have seen in production some seven folds (true sevens) which have a strip of lining sewn in to add to heft.

In this post authored some while ago I gave some examples of the differences.

I am sure David Hober can further elaborate.
 

Eccentric

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
610
Reaction score
3
Originally Posted by Felix Krull
As many of the previous posters have illumninated, true 7-fold ties have traditionally been somewhat scarce and not at all mass produced. In essence, you had to know where to look for them. That is partly why I was so shocked to see them in such a "common" place as Dillards. Part of the joy of owning a 7-fold tie, something that 90% of other men (colleageues and competitors alike)did not own, has now been lost.

First off, I have seen the Dillard's ties and they are lined sixes, not sevens. Secondly, I am disturbed by your elitism. Many on this forum wear what they do because they like the way it looks, not to place themselves on a pedestal above society. If any of us are appear elevated above the masses, it is because of good choices in attire, not because of choosing exclusive items.

Furthermore, almost everyone on this forum decries the downward spiral in the quality of men's clothing. Is it not then a good thing that a department store is mass producing something that will possibly better the wearer, rather than more printed t-shirts and Croc's?

Your mentality is not that far from the Russians and Arabs who have gold spun into perfectly good suits to tack several thousand on to the price.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 36.7%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 59 39.3%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 15 10.0%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 26 17.3%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 26 17.3%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,124
Messages
10,578,693
Members
223,880
Latest member
EdvardHelene
Top