new photos of suit & coat

Originally Posted by Invicta

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You don't need to see him in a bathing suit, just look at the pictures of him in the suit. The line of the shoulder is quite severly sloped from his neck to his deltoid. That is what is causing the empty space between his deltoid and the jacket sleeve, hence the crease/crinkle. It is a critique of the suit. I see it as a bad design to have roped shoulders on a (what appears to be) a lightly padded/not padded shoulder. It's a horrible amalgamation of neopoltian and saville row style shoulders that is only going to fit a portion of Tom Ford's target audience. However that is Tom Ford's vision for his RTW line and there is nothing I can do about it.

Based on what you know about my body - what type of shoulder do you think would be best ?

Originally Posted by AvariceBespoke

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Based on what you know about my body - what type of shoulder do you think would be best ?

This is an extremely personal descision, one that has many many factors and is one that you need to make on your own. Also simply knowing which style of shoulder you like/works well with your body is not nearly enough. There are many variations of a specific "style" of shoulder. As many people in this thread and the other have said the best way to figure out what fits and what doesn't is to go to Neiman Marcus, Berdorf, and Saks and try on as many different jackets as you can. Brioni, Kiton, Oxxford, Barbera, Attolini, Isaia, Cornellini, St. Andrews, Armani, Canali, Thom Brown, Black Fleece, Etro, Borelli, Hickey Freeman, and that just names a few. Also ask yourself, is this suit primarily for work or play, if it needs to be for both then err on the side of a more conservative cut. If it's just for going out then be as agressive with the styling as you want. Ultimately the goal is to be comfortable in the suit. If you are uncomfortable in the suit it will come through in your social interactions and put people off.

That's my disclaimer, I will say that historically neopolitian shoulders offer a more natural drape, but with the caveat that what we know as "Neopolitian" shoulders here in the states are not true neopolitian shoulders as they have some light padding. Please refer to Manton's thread about it here:
http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...ad.php?t=49543

Originally Posted by Invicta

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Its not so much that they are made for one body type,but a range of body types. Through a combination of diet, exercise and in all likelyhood, genetics, he falls outside that range. He very likely could get a Tom Ford suit that fit well, if he did MTM, but the RTW/OTR line simply isn't in the cards for him. I had the exact same experience when I went to get my last suit, I fell in love with a Dolce & Gabana number (charcoal, ticket pocket, angled flaps, 2 buttons, just awesome), just one problem. I had too much shoulder for the D&G line. Well the SA had me in the tailoring station getting the alterations marked, all the while trying to assuage my doubts about the fit. Thank God the tailor had the decency to tell me that I just wasn't going to fit into it no matter how he altered it (when the SA was out looking for a couple of shirts) and reccommended Zegna or Canali. Went back out, found a Canali that I liked and it fit much better. The SA still got a sale, (despite being a snake) and I got a great suit that only needed a few minor alterations.
I had the same experience as well, from tailoring RL Black Label suits. The tailor had to remove/reduce the paddings to make the jacket fit my elevated.

Originally Posted by AvariceBespoke

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unlike paulson i do not implement a risk arbitrage strategy - i'm long/short equity - value oriented / and event driven we employ a macro overlay to both generate alpha and reduce risk
Good to know there's a long/short equity peer on this board!

Originally Posted by Invicta

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This is an extremely personal descision, one that has many many factors and is one that you need to make on your own. Also simply knowing which style of shoulder you like/works well with your body is not nearly enough. There are many variations of a specific "style" of shoulder. As many people in this thread and the other have said the best way to figure out what fits and what doesn't is to go to Neiman Marcus, Berdorf, and Saks and try on as many different jackets as you can. Brioni, Kiton, Oxxford, Barbera, Attolini, Isaia, Cornellini, St. Andrews, Armani, Canali, Thom Brown, Black Fleece, Etro, Borelli, Hickey Freeman, and that just names a few. Also ask yourself, is this suit primarily for work or play, if it needs to be for both then err on the side of a more conservative cut. If it's just for going out then be as agressive with the styling as you want. Ultimately the goal is to be comfortable in the suit. If you are uncomfortable in the suit it will come through in your social interactions and put people off. That's my disclaimer, I will say that historically neopolitian shoulders offer a more natural drape, but with the caveat that what we know as "Neopolitian" shoulders here in the states are not true neopolitian shoulders as they have some light padding. Please refer to Manton's thread about it here: http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...ad.php?t=49543
Even though TF's RTW did not fit him, I think he could still achieve the very structured shoulder/clean chest look from bespoke tailors (or some RTW brand that fits better). Coming to think of it, natural shoulders sounds much much easier to implement and fit compare to structured shoulders...

Originally Posted by Invicta

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That's my disclaimer, I will say that historically neopolitian shoulders offer a more natural drape, but with the caveat that what we know as "Neopolitian" shoulders here in the states are not true neopolitian shoulders as they have some light padding.

I'm not sure what constitutes a 'Neapolitan' shoulder anymore, or if a sensible definition is even possible. But it has nothing to do with drape and more to do with being a minimally padded, natural shoulder, often combined with spalla camicia, but not always. If the shoulder line has any straightness to it, it's not 'Neapolitan' to me.

To make things even more confusing, spalla camicia can look very different in different applications. You might have noticed this in photos of various Rubinacci jackets worn by Iammatt and myself. The amount of puckering can vary, the sleevehead can appear level with the shoulder line or rise above it, and the apparent fullness of the sleeve at the shoulder can be different. Sometimes, it's hard to tell if it is spalla camiica at all.

Originally Posted by vitaminc

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Coming to think of it, natural shoulders sounds much much easier to implement and fit compare to structured shoulders...

Absolutely untrue. It's not like you can just leave a shoulded unpadded and call it a day.

Originally Posted by embowafa

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Stop being a turd. Your original and follow up comments were quite rude....the source of AB's money has no bearing on the issue currently being discussed.

I hate when people count other people's money.
Spare me the self-righteousness. I'm a little tired of being taken for a ride by an obvious attention whore. I had sympathy when I thought he was just a clueless kid taken advantage of by unscrupulous salespeople. After all this drama, it's become quite obvious that his blasà attitude is completely to blame. He wanted to look like James Bond in QoS, as well as brag about the make of his suit (note the 18 threads he started dedicated to TF), and little else.

What's worse, though, is he hasn't learned a thing. Every new criticism is credulously lapped up; now he's asking people about what clothing would work on him based on 'what you know about my body.' To be fair, all the armchair tailors around here aren't making matters any better with their million and one contradictory bits of advice. Nevertheless, he blithely carries on, name-dropping about the future designers he's going to waste another few thousand on in the future without bothering to so much as figure out his actual shoulder measurements beforehand. What's his big plan? To do a 6-month Arnold Schwarzenegger 'shoulder shocker' workout so that he can achieve the TF look. It's a joke. It would be trolling if he weren't actually a real person.

I suppose what bothers me the most is the sheer laziness being evinced. It's like all he wants is a checklist of fashion tips to take with him to the boutiques. I haven't seen him make any effort to actually learn about the principles of style. He's already moving on to the next suit, assuming that a different brand name will solve all his problems.

Originally Posted by Invicta

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This is an extremely personal descision, one that has many many factors and is one that you need to make on your own. Also simply knowing which style of shoulder you like/works well with your body is not nearly enough. There are many variations of a specific "style" of shoulder. As many people in this thread and the other have said the best way to figure out what fits and what doesn't is to go to Neiman Marcus, Berdorf, and Saks and try on as many different jackets as you can. Brioni, Kiton, Oxxford, Barbera, Attolini, Isaia, Cornellini, St. Andrews, Armani, Canali, Thom Brown, Black Fleece, Etro, Borelli, Hickey Freeman, and that just names a few. Also ask yourself, is this suit primarily for work or play, if it needs to be for both then err on the side of a more conservative cut. If it's just for going out then be as agressive with the styling as you want. Ultimately the goal is to be comfortable in the suit. If you are uncomfortable in the suit it will come through in your social interactions and put people off.

That's my disclaimer, I will say that historically neopolitian shoulders offer a more natural drape, but with the caveat that what we know as "Neopolitian" shoulders here in the states are not true neopolitian shoulders as they have some light padding. Please refer to Manton's thread about it here:
http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...ad.php?t=49543

The problem with this advice is that he (and also me for that matter) may not be in a position to understand the technical distinctions between each of those makers. In fact, he already said that he tried on many differnt makers and on his own reached the conclusion (albeit the worng conclusion) that TF was suitbale for his physique.

If the salespeople at any of the high-end stores actually did the portion of the job that entails something other than swiping his credit card it could be possible....

I am the king of Siam.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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I am the king of Siam.

Unfortunately, this is the most sensible statement in this thread(s).

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Absolutely untrue. It's not like you can just leave a shoulded unpadded and call it a day.

My apologies for not being clear. What I meant is natural/unpadded shoulders on RTW suits are much easier to alter/fix compare to structured shoulders, from my experiences.

Originally Posted by Kuro

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The problem with this advice is that he (and also me for that matter) may not be in a position to understand the technical distinctions between each of those makers. In fact, he already said that he tried on many differnt makers and on his own reached the conclusion (albeit the worng conclusion) that TF was suitbale for his physique.

If the salespeople at any of the high-end stores actually did the portion of the job that entails something other than swiping his credit card it could be possible....

What's the technical differences between those makers then? Just wondering because I have not tried all of them.

Originally Posted by vitaminc

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What's the technical differences between those makers then? Just wondering because I have not tried all of them.


I don't know...that was my point. I know that I cannot say the optimal jacket for my build is one that has x structural elements as opposed to one that has y structural elements and that to get those structural elements this particular maker is best.

Originally Posted by holymadness

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Spare me the self-righteousness. I'm a little tired of being taken for a ride by an obvious attention whore. I had sympathy when I thought he was just a clueless kid taken advantage of by unscrupulous salespeople. After all this drama, it's become quite obvious that his blasÃ

attitude is completely to blame. He wanted to look like James Bond in QoS, as well as brag about the make of his suit (note the 18 threads he started dedicated to TF), and little else.

What's worse, though, is he hasn't learned a thing. Every new criticism is credulously lapped up; now he's asking people about what clothing would work on him based on 'what you know about my body.'

To be fair, all the armchair tailors around here aren't making matters any better with their million and one contradictory bits of advice. Nevertheless, he blithely carries on, name-dropping about the future designers he's going to waste another few thousand on in the future without bothering to so much as figure out his actual shoulder measurements beforehand. What's his big plan? To do a 6-month Arnold Schwarzenegger 'shoulder shocker' workout so that he can achieve the TF look.

It's a joke. It would be trolling if he weren't actually a real person.

I suppose what bothers me the most is the sheer laziness being evinced. It's like all he wants is a checklist of fashion tips to take with him to the boutiques. I haven't seen him make any effort to actually learn about the principles of style. He's already moving on to the next suit, assuming that a different brand name will solve all his problems.

No I don't want a different brand. I want a tailor that can construct a beautiful looking suit to fit my body perfectly.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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I am the king of Siam.

Who's Anna?

Originally Posted by AvariceBespoke

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No I don't want a different brand. I want a tailor that can construct a beautiful looking suit to fit my body perfectly.

Okay, so if you even so much as mention another brand or going back to Tom Ford for more suits, I get to reach through your computer screen and backhand you.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Unfortunately, this is the most sensible statement in this thread(s).

Nope, this is:

Originally Posted by Invicta

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He very likely could get a Tom Ford suit that fit well, if he did MTM, but the RTW/OTR line simply isn't in the cards for him.

Plus my own comment to the same effect in thread #1.

I am absolutely LIVID at the injustice in this world.


- B