French Foreign Legion

Tycoon,

since I raised the issue of the FFL, I am going to act like a responsible adult.

here is the thing, the FFL may be jsut what you need to put your life in a certain direction - a little adverture, something different, a little savings, see the world.


it will also be extremly hard and possibly the type of thing that will make you into a scicopath. the training will be a *****, and nobody will be nice to you at all for years. the people you serve with really will treat you roughly.

now, I am sorry to say this, there may be a good reason that the USMC didn't want you to have a gun. you may want to examine that, before you find somebody with lower standards. maybe what you want is something that will have a little less advernture but will have some structure - like the merchant marine, coast guard, crab fishing in alaska.

it is something to think about, and possibly discuss with some responsible adults who actually know you are care about you, not some edudes.

They don't want me to have a gun either.

Different reasons though.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

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They don't want me to have a gun either.

Different reasons though.

you never know, might be the same one.....

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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Tycoon, since I raised the issue of the FFL, I am going to act like a responsible adult. here is the thing, the FFL may be jsut what you need to put your life in a certain direction - a little adverture, something different, a little savings, see the world. it will also be extremly hard and possibly the type of thing that will make you into a scicopath. the training will be a *****, and nobody will be nice to you at all for years. the people you serve with really will treat you roughly. now, I am sorry to say this, there may be a good reason that the USMC didn't want you to have a gun. you may want to examine that, before you find somebody with lower standards. maybe what you want is something that will have a little less advernture but will have some structure - like the merchant marine, coast guard, crab fishing in alaska. it is something to think about, and possibly discuss with some responsible adults who actually know you are care about you, not some edudes.
Appreciated. The thing is there's no one for me to talk to about this stuff. My family didn't even want me to go USMC, and my friends all just want me to stay in town to go to college with em. Is it me or do they tone down the treat you subhuman mentality in the American military?

Originally Posted by TyCooN

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Appreciated.

Is it me or do they tone down the treat you subhuman mentality in the American military?

the american military coddles you. the IDF doesn't coddle you, but you have a lot more contact with society in the IDF - you get leave more often and society treats soldiers very well in israel. the FFL is a hell of a lot tougher - once you sign in, you can't get out, and they know it. also, they don't really care if you dad doesn't vote for his local senetor, because he thinks you weren't treated well. it is totally irrelevant to them, you aren't a citizen yet.

now, honestly, some people get a lot from this treatment. and some go ******* nuts. but it is never pleasant. I can remember seriously thinking that it would be a good idea to shoot my foot, to get out of some of the elements of my training.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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you never know, might be the same one.....

Somehow I doubt it.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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the american military coddles you. the IDF doesn't coddle you, but you have a lot more contact with society in the IDF - you get leave more often and society treats soldiers very well in israel.

Have you ever been in the American military? If so, which branch?

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

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Have you ever been in the American military? If so, which branch?

no, I haven't. but I have interacted with the US military. marrines, airborn and corp of engineers.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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no, I haven't. but I have interacted with the US military. marrines, airborn and corp of engineers.

Kind of a mirror image of me, then. I was an officer in the Marine Corps, completed Airborne training at Fort Benning, and interacted with Israeli military when deployed with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit in 1988. I don't really know anything about the IDF, but I can assure you that you have misconceptions about the US military.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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no, I haven't. but I have interacted with the US military. marrines, airborn and corp of engineers.

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

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Kind of a mirror image of me, then. I was an officer in the Marine Corps, completed Airborne training at Fort Benning, and interacted with Israeli military when deployed with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit in 1988. I don't really know anything about the IDF, but I can assure you that you have misconceptions about the US military.

I think that you were both coddled too much.

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

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Kind of a mirror image of me, then. I was an officer in the Marine Corps, completed Airborne training at Fort Benning, and interacted with Israeli military when deployed with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit in 1988. I don't really know anything about the IDF, but I can assure you that you have misconceptions about the US military.

did you train at Mitcan Adem in 88, by any chance?

sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting when I said "coddled" if that is what you meant. I meant it more in comparison to the FFL. but let me put it this way - I am not sure that I had more than 5% of my meals in the army warm. it was not uncommon for me to go for 3-4 weeks straight in the winter without having dry (or clean) clothes, I was never on a base with a movie theatre, spent less than 1/6th of my service with toilets.

I don't mean this, at all, as a competition - but I think that the American army gives ahuge amount of support to make soldiers more comfortable, compared to many other armies. but of course I may be totally wrong.

Originally Posted by GQgeek

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I think that you were both coddled too much.


I know I have been.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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did you train at Mitcan Adem in 88, by any chance? sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting when I said "coddled" if that is what you meant. I meant it more in comparison to the FFL. but let me put it this way - I am not sure that I had more than 5% of my meals in the army warm. it was not uncommon for me to go for 3-4 weeks straight in the winter without having dry (or clean) clothes, I was never on a base with a movie theatre, spent less than 1/6th of my service with toilets. I don't mean this, at all, as a competition - but I think that the American army gives ahuge amount of support to make soldiers more comfortable, compared to many other armies. but of course I may be totally wrong.
No, I didn't do any training with Israelis. "Interaction" was just a few conversations and a tour. Based upon my experiences, I agree that military from other countries seem to lead more Spartan lives, at least when they are in the field. Honestly, my first thought about your "less than 5% warm meals, 3-4 weeks without dry clothes....." situation is that you had poor leadership, unless this was part of some "rite of passage" type training situation. For that type of thing to go on for years would be bad for morale. IMO, a long term daily ration of **** is counterproductive to military effectiveness. My point of view is different to some degree because I was in the aviation community. There was plenty of order and discipline, but the relationships between ranks was more relaxed than in the ground communities. It always seemed a good idea to be fairly pleasant to the troops who maintained the aircraft.

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

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No, I didn't do any training with Israelis. "Interaction" was just a few conversations and a tour.

Based upon my experiences, I agree that military from other countries seem to lead more Spartan lives, at least when they are in the field. Honestly, my first thought about your "less than 5% warm meals, 3-4 weeks without dry clothes....." situation is that you had poor leadership, unless this was part of some "rite of passage" type training situation. For that type of thing to go on for years would be bad for morale. IMO, a long term daily ration of **** is counterproductive to military effectiveness.

My point of view is different to some degree because I was in the aviation community. There was plenty of order and discipline, but the relationships between ranks was more relaxed than in the ground communities. It always seemed a good idea to be fairly pleasant to the troops who maintained the aircraft.

You want to say that the IDF has poor moral and bad leadership? The greatest militaries in the world fought under even worst circumstances and have better records than the well fed and often overweight US servicemen.

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

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Based upon my experiences, I agree that military from other countries seem to lead more Spartan lives, at least when they are in the field. Honestly, my first thought about your "less than 5% warm meals, 3-4 weeks without dry clothes....." situation is that you had poor leadership, unless this was part of some "rite of passage" type training situation. For that type of thing to go on for years would be bad for morale. IMO, a long term daily ration of **** is counterproductive to military effectiveness.

.

yeah, the IDF is a little unusual - after basic training (which can be very very long) officers and, NCOs and troops eat together and have pretty much identical living conditions. if anything, the NCOs and officers have it a little rougher.

its strange, but the harsh living conditions weren't bad for moral, as far as I can remember. we used to be strangly proud, for want of a better word, of how we could tough it out. for what ever reason, paratroopers didn't wear coats during basic training. and our training camp was at pretty high elevation, and I had the luck to inlist in January. so we were ******* cold. but the other infantry did wear coats, so we thought that made them pussies. for all I know, they weren't allowed to use toilet paper, and they thought we were pussies for having toilet paper.

but most of the hardships weren't artifically introduced - we were just a poor army. we didn't have access to the logistics that would get us warm food, we didn't have laundry service, or real entertainment.