Mod to Suedehead

Yes - waffle knit would be right! Berk in Burlington Arcade used to sell one in camel hair - so that would have even been a proper colour. But at the moment there doesn't seem to be one...

Originally Posted by starcrash

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(...) Those were super-popular in the 80's, not just for skins.

...most of the typical skinhead items were or became popular anyways - come on, which copmpany would produce things for a subculture that makes less than one percent of a (industrial state's) population? It's the combination of items that make up the style...

...I'm still having the spirit of 67 - or the one of my signature...

I'll have to scan and post the pics from Nick Knight's book on "the look" throughout the years, from skinhead in '69 to suedehead to smoothie etc. his is not any definitive resource but pretty good overall. would fit in this thread and subforum nicely I think...and illustrate some of the ideas of "taking classic men's clothing and giving it edge and attitude"

...go ahead! (...and just to be a smartass - the style section was done by Jim Ferguson...)...

...off to nürnberg!

Out of curiousity, when did bleached jeans become part of the skinhead style? Seems like it would be part of the '82 punk resurgence and the development of Oi!, but I wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by AntiHero84

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Out of curiousity, when did bleached jeans become part of the skinhead style? Seems like it would be part of the '82 punk resurgence and the development of Oi!, but I wasn't sure.
Hmm. In any case, it seems about due for a comeback. Would be a logical backlash after we finally get sick of our raw denim.

Originally Posted by AntiHero84

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Out of curiousity, when did bleached jeans become part of the skinhead style? Seems like it would be part of the '82 punk resurgence and the development of Oi!, but I wasn't sure.

it never did. I don't care if you have photo proof. it never happened I tells ya!

Originally Posted by AntiHero84

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Out of curiousity, when did bleached jeans become part of the skinhead style? Seems like it would be part of the '82 punk resurgence and the development of Oi!, but I wasn't sure.

ha, I think Condemned 84 single handedly pioneered that look til it became normal. always hated it myself

Yeah, never seemed like a good look for a sking, but I thought it was great for punk. I made a pair myself, when I was 16. They were seriously the best fitting jeans I ever owned. Wish I could find them.

It's interesting how many current and ex-skins, punks, and mods are on this forum. I mean, can the same thing be said about other subcultures? I'm sure there are alot of current and ex-skaters, grunge kids, and new wavers, but what is it about these particular cultures that encourages its members to hold onto this subcultural identity for so long? Certainly theres a strong emphasis on style and manner of dress, but don't all subcultures? Perhaps its the rigidity of the"uniform."

imo, subcultures have 2 dynamics...either they are fad driven (grunge, hip hop, new wave, swing) due to their time in history or they are ideologically driven (punk, skin, mod, goth, rockabilly etc)

the fad driven tribalists just become "normals" after they grow out of their fad

the ideological tribalists often hang on to their thing because there was always that "this is a way of life, not a fashion" mantra that sticks in the back of your head

the rigidity of the "uniform" i think does play a big part. Even if you don't dress skinhead anymore, you're going to take a lot of cues from that style and apply it. besides, specifically with skinhead, it's a look that can carry over into your grampa years as long as you edit out the nonsense that seemed ok when yer 16 (14 hole boots with braces, bleached jeans, etc) and go over to the purist side (gingham buttondowns, vneck and cardis, loafers, brogues, crombies etc). I'd say rockabilly has a similar dynamic, that you can grow old with and not look too absurd.

as much of a bad cliched slogan it is, skinheads really will never die.

I would argue that hip hop is also an ideological subculture, but it would probably derail the thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've made some previous statements that the skinhead subculture does not necessarily have a dominant ideology. Moving away from cliche'd themes of blue collar pride, instead focussing on the music and overall aesthetic. I may have misread you or my recollection may be faulty, but what would you consider the ideological basis of the skinhead subculture which produces this "way of life?"

Originally Posted by AntiHero84

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...the skinhead subculture does not necessarily have a dominant ideology. Moving away from cliche'd themes of blue collar pride, instead focussing on the music and overall aesthetic...

i would tend to disagree with this. while I do think there is a big emphasis on music and style the roots are always FIRMLY planted in the working class pride. and in the end, there's a real "where I came from" pride that will always be there regardless of whether or not you still run in the circle.

That has a much deeper meaning than the sort of angsty bullshit that spawned grunge and it's ilk. people grow out of phases like that. the whole punk and skin thing really comes from who you are not how you are feeling at the moment. longevity is bred into it.

Originally Posted by AntiHero84

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've made some previous statements that the skinhead subculture does not necessarily have a dominant ideology. Moving away from cliche'd themes of blue collar pride, instead focussing on the music and overall aesthetic. I may have misread you or my recollection may be faulty, but what would you consider the ideological basis of the skinhead subculture which produces this "way of life?"
i may have, but I generally don't like to make sweeping statements since I always use the example of "ask 10 skinheads the same question about their scene and you get 10 different answers" as far as a dominant ideology, keeping politics out of skinhead is probably the best mantra that scene has come up with. some guys will lean more to the right, some to the left. doesnt mean they cant get along. But traditionally it's always been a scene that leans to the right in some way. My own views skew towards the right and that is regardless of any involvement in the scene, and is probably a good reason I was drawn to it. When I was a kid I remember seeing skins at punk shows and I was always interested in their clean but tough look that had no scruff to it, and I had gotten into 2 tone before I really got into punk I guess what I meant when I said "ideologically driven" wasnt that it's a political or social statement, just that it's not based on whatever subculture is the flavor of the moment, the way grunge or new wave was for example. Hip hop....eh, it's so mainstream that I'd hardly say it was a subculture anymore. Maybe back in the 80s when Run DMC, Public Enemy and NWA were spearheading it. But let's not kid ourselves, the uniform or some semblance of it is a big part, so as much as we'd like to say "it's not a fashion but a way of life", I'll concede that's sorta full of **** because the look is a big part of it. after all there's plenty of guys who have right wing views and are confrontational assholes, but they arent skinheads **keep in mind I'm not the authority in any way, these are just my opinions on it after being a participant since mid 80s

Originally Posted by dave

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i would tend to disagree with this. while I do think there is a big emphasis on music and style the roots are always FIRMLY planted in the working class pride. and in the end, there's a real "where I came from" pride that will always be there regardless of whether or not you still run in the circle.

That has a much deeper meaning than the sort of angsty bullshit that spawned grunge and it's ilk. people grow out of phases like that. the whole punk and skin thing really comes from who you are not how you are feeling at the moment. longevity is bred into it.

I definitely agree with you, I was only trying to use something GS said a while back as an example. The skinhead subculture, and even the mod, certainly have class based elements which are incredibly influential in their early development, and to a degree, still continues today.

Originally Posted by Get Smart

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i may have, but I generally don't like to make sweeping statements since I always use the example of "ask 10 skinheads the same question about their scene and you get 10 different answers"

as far as a dominant ideology, keeping politics out of skinhead is probably the best mantra that scene has come up with. some guys will lean more to the right, some to the left. doesnt mean they cant get along. But traditionally it's always been a scene that leans to the right in some way. My own views skew towards the right and that is regardless of any involvement in the scene, and is probably a good reason I was drawn to it. I remember seeing skins at punk shows and I was always interested in their clean but tough look that had no scruff to it.

I guess what I meant when I said "ideologically driven" wasnt that it's a political or social statement, just that it's not based on whatever subculture is the flavor of the moment, the way grunge or new wave was for example. Hip hop....eh, it's so mainstream that I'd hardly say it was a subculture anymore. Maybe back in the 80s when Run DMC, Public Enemy and NWA were spearheading it.

But let's not kid ourselves, the uniform or some semblance of it is a big part, so as much as we'd like to say "it's not a fashion but a way of life", I'll concede that's sorta full of **** because the look is a big part of it. after all there's plenty of guys who have right wing views and are confrontational assholes, but they arent skinheads

Ok, I'll concede on the hip hop comment. It's probably a perfect example of how a subculture can be assimilated into the dominant culture.

Believe me, I would be the last person to try and bring politics into a debate about skinheads and subculture, but I do believe that each culture does in fact have some sort of general social statement. Whether every member holds this ideology as their own or not, there still seems to be a common sentiment in each subculture. In this instance, I think the skinhead subculture places its emphasis on working class pride, sharp dress, and music (you ska vs. oi people can figure it out on your own). Now this is coming from someone who was moderately involved in the punk/skin scene in his teens, so take it with a grain of salt.