Denim 101 for Men's Clothing

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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I really like Flat Head, both their denim and other products.

I think I might be more of a denimhead than most MC guys. I'm not sure this is helpful or not, but here are the jeans that I own and wear these days...I've markedly cut back on denim purchases, recently, for obvious reasons.

5EP x SF (got two pairs because I like them so much)
APC New Standards
Edwin (straight raw selvedge...don't recall which one)
Flat Head 3001
KMW 1980 (raw made in Japan selvedge version)
Nom de Guerre classic fit (non-selvedge in gray)
Nudie Straight Sven (flame selvedge)
Paul Smith Red Ear (raw selvedge version)
Somet 003 Straight Fit Indigo
Studio D'Artisan SD-103
Sugar Cane x Self Edge SEXSC02

There's a bit of variety in there, but they are mostly straight/slim and medium/low-ish rise.


- B

Woah, nice rotation. You should post some pics up if any have a lot of fading.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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I definitely agree with this. Most of what I have as far as sportcoats is pretty rough, so it may not be the problem. Nothing is worse than the Eurotrash look, IMO.

Anyway, I sent you a pm.

Replied. I often wonder which worse - boring, sloppy American look, or Eurotrashy look. It's really a question of whether it is worse to die by ice or by fire.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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I am going to be reading this thread in more detail, but for now, I'll just say that I have a pair of Diesel jeans that I've had for years. I love them but recognize the boot cut is pretty dated on them now. Worse, they're starting to wear through in the crotch. I know they're not great but they're comfortable as hell and still serviceable.

So I went out and got a pair of 5ep LDBs. I paid a g**d***** fortune for them. I wore them for a while and they were tight as hell in the crotch. They stretched out a good bit so they're no longer blatantly uncomfortable but the denim is still stiff and scratchy and they are not a pleasure to put on. I have been trying to break them in for months but I have zero of the cool fading that was so hyped. They do stack a bit at the knees but I am beginning to realize that stacking is marsupialed and will someday look as dated, if not more so, than the boot cut on the Diesels. They don't sit well on me and they are not flattering, though I was told they were one of the better jeans for a bigger guy like me. They look marsupialed at the crotch. Dated and everything, my Diesels just look better. The color is so dark they look odd with brown shoes, and I hate wearing black shoes, and I never wear sneakers. Making matters worse, I was tempted into buying them thru a special that was advertised on SF by the store (an SF affiliate who shall remain nameless) and that turned out to not apply to my 5eps, and I didn't even get the SF discount, which pissed me off mightily considering I drove an hour to get there. In short, I hate them, and though I am occasionally inspired to throw them on to try to continue breaking them in, once I put them on, I usually end up feeling so uncomfortable I take them right back off again.

As a result of my experience, I am calling bulls*** on the whole denim scene, which not only made me spend $300+ on jeans that are neither good-looking nor comfortable, but made me feel self-conscious about the jeans I like.

So I went out and got a Brioni suit. I paid a g**d***** fortune for it. I was told they were one of the better suits for a guy like me. It looks marsupialed. Dated and everything, my H&M suit looks better. In short, I hate it, and though I am occasionally inspired to throw it on for an occassional meeting, once I put it on, I usually end up feeling so uncomfortable I take it right back off again.

I'm calling bullshit on the whole suit scene, which not only made me spend $3,000+ on a suit that is neither good-looking nor comfortable, but made me feel self conscious about the suits I like.

....See how crazy that sounds?

I have 15-year old 501s STF jeans. Can I keep those?

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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Replied. I often wonder which worse - boring, sloppy American look, or Eurotrashy look. It's really a question of whether it is worse to die by ice or by fire.

I don't wear tailored odd jackets with jeans ever...if I wear a jacket with them, it's something more casual like Wings+Horn, Nom de Guerre, Rag and Bone, early Rogan, or Engineered Garments.

The one exception is with the Sugar Cane SEXSC02, which are very slim and have a super-long inseam. It's the only pair that I wear cuffed, and I like the way it looks with a navy blazer (bone buttons, not metal) and penny loafers...sort of Warhol-ish.

But that's it.


- B

Originally Posted by dopey

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I have 15-year old 501s STF jeans. Can I keep those?

I see you more as a denim gaucho type.



- B

Originally Posted by onion

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So I went out and got a Brioni suit. I paid a g**d***** fortune for it. I was told they were one of the better suits for a guy like me. It looks marsupialed. Dated and everything, my H&M suit looks better. In short, I hate it, and though I am occasionally inspired to throw it on for an occassional meeting, once I put it on, I usually end up feeling so uncomfortable I take it right back off again.

I'm calling bullshit on the whole suit scene, which not only made me spend $3,000+ on a suit that is neither good-looking nor comfortable, but made me feel self conscious about the suits I like.

....See how crazy that sounds?

I sort of see your point, and LA Guy made the same one, albeit less flippantly.

But what the suit has going for it that raw denim does not is a sense of timelessness. I like suits and classic tailored menswear because if I do it right, my suits and shoes will still look great in 10 years. Yes, certain elements come and go - lapel widths may be narrow or wide, shoulders may be soft or padded - but if I stay relatively close to the middle or have my own sense of style about it, I'll still be able to wear them in 10 years. It's the difference so many point out between style and fashion.

Denim trends and what is flogged in the Streetwear section seems to me to be pure fashion. It's "cooler" because it's not mainstream fashion, but it is fashion nonetheless. I'd be derided for my Diesels as others recently were for their Luckys, because of the bootcut, or the light color, or whatever. It just seems to me that things like stacking, extremely narrow cuts, and a super dark color are just arbitrary trends that are guaranteed to be out of date in 3-5 years.

Originally Posted by cchen

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Please post pics in both jeans so we can help.

Thanks for the response. I will try to tonight.

Originally Posted by onion

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So I went out and got a Brioni suit. I paid a g**d***** fortune for it. I was told they were one of the better suits for a guy like me. It looks marsupialed. Dated and everything, my H&M suit looks better. In short, I hate it, and though I am occasionally inspired to throw it on for an occassional meeting, once I put it on, I usually end up feeling so uncomfortable I take it right back off again.

I'm calling bullshit on the whole suit scene, which not only made me spend $3,000+ on a suit that is neither good-looking nor comfortable, but made me feel self conscious about the suits I like.

....See how crazy that sounds?

Also, H&M is not derided at all in MC as I suspect my Diesels will be once I post them.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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I don't wear tailored odd jackets with jeans ever...if I wear a jacket with them, it's something more casual like Wings+Horn, Nom de Guerre, Rag and Bone, early Rogan, or Engineered Garments.

The one exception is with the Sugar Cane SEXSC02, which are very slim and have a super-long inseam. It's the only pair that I wear cuffed, and I like the way it looks with a navy blazer (bone buttons, not metal) and penny loafers...sort of Warhol-ish.

But that's it.


- B

I don't wear odd jackets, period. I do wear Wings+Horns, Nom de Guerre, and Engineered Garments jackets with my jeans, but not sportsjackets per se. I can see why people do, and I like the Warhol thing, but it is not my thing.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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I sort of see your point, and LA Guy made the same one, albeit less flippantly.

But what the suit has going for it that raw denim does not is a sense of timelessness. I like suits and classic tailored menswear because if I do it right, my suits and shoes will still look great in 10 years. Yes, certain elements come and go - lapel widths may be narrow or wide, shoulders may be soft or padded - but if I stay relatively close to the middle or have my own sense of style about it, I'll still be able to wear them in 10 years. It's the difference so many point out between style and fashion.

Denim trends and what is flogged in the Streetwear section seems to me to be pure fashion. It's "cooler" because it's not mainstream fashion, but it is fashion nonetheless. I'd be derided for my Diesels as others recently were for their Luckys, because of the bootcut, or the light color, or whatever. It just seems to me that things like stacking, extremely narrow cuts, and a super dark color are just arbitrary trends that are guaranteed to be out of date in 3-5 years.

I disagree with you on both points. It is all fashion. The longevity of a suit may be longer than that for denim trends, but they are all fashion. If you have a strong sense of personal style, you will be able to incorporate old pieces with new without a problem. I still wear Jil Sander pieces from 1998 today, and will pair the pieces with stuff from FW08. The extreme stuff (ticket pockets - already becoming increasingly gauche, extremely high gorge) in suit design, on the other hand, will look just as dated as the extreme stuff in denim/casual fashion (carrot leg jeans) five years from now.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

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I see you more as a denim gaucho type.

- B

I think I had a pair of those in 1974. Back then denim protocol demanded that you sized down 10 or so. They were so tight that you had to lay back to put them on -- having a few friends grab the belt loops helped -- and pull the zipper up with a pair of pliers. Once on, you arranged yourself below the belt line and took a piece of sandpaper to your bulge for the perfect cock fade. And then ... the disco.

lefty

I have one pair in my rotation now - some raw Nudies, I belive they are called the Average Joe cut - straight leg, medium rise. I consider them to be iGent aside from the slightly flashy pockets.

Originally Posted by Douglas

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. . . Denim trends and what is flogged in the Streetwear section seems to me to be pure fashion. It's "cooler" because it's not mainstream fashion, but it is fashion nonetheless. I'd be derided for my Diesels as others recently were for their Luckys, because of the bootcut, or the light color, or whatever. It just seems to me that things like stacking, extremely narrow cuts, and a super dark color are just arbitrary trends that are guaranteed to be out of date in 3-5 years.
Are there women who are into men because of their cool denim, or is it just an "impress the other guy" thing?

Nudies are probably a 7.5 on the iGent scale. TRUE iGent would be bespoke denim in a trouser cut?