I Just Bought a... (Wine, Spirit, or Beer)

Allow me...

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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I guess we've been down this path before
Condescending at a minimum, with the implication that some people are too stupid to learn.

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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...buy the 2004 beringer knights valley alluvium for about $13, taste blind against the BV and two other cabs, report back.
The staccato voicing again indicates condescension from a superior --a sense that your are rolling your eyes as you typed. Taken with the prior fragment, I'd say you probably were.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Good thing you'll not be invited over, so you'll not have to drink my swill

This is a response in reasonably good grace.

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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I'm reminded of a dinner where the host served nothing but parker 100 point wines. As I'm in the business, he singled me out afterwards to ask what I though of the wine. My thought was that if, like my host, you have $100 million or so in the bank, you may as well spend the money. For me (and most of the rest of the population), the game is to find high QPR wine. That doesn't mean cheap wine, it means at every price level, finding the best QPR. I am asserting that you have chosen high quality wine that has a low QPR. If your net worth is such that you don't care about QPR, good on you. If you;re interested and get to NYC, bring your wine, I'll bring mine, we'll get a couple of other people involved, and we'll put it to the test.
The bolded sections indicate that you are playing the "not an everyman" card so often used in politics, and painting yourself as a sensible, normal guy who understands value for money, in apposition to "the others" who can just buy the purported best without having had to acquire the understanding and depth of knowledge you so clearly possess. This is the snarkiness that so characterizes reverse snobbery.

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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Yup, I was selectively pointing out the wine that had a low qpr in the hopes of saving you, and others that might follow your lead, some money. I think you are seriously over-reacting...I was dispassionaltely discussing the relative merit of a wine and you shifted to a personal attack. Be hard on the problem, easy on the person.
The first personal attack was yours, up there in bold above. As for substance, I learned nothing, because I don't know how the wine you spoke of compares. Is it just as good, or just incredible for it's pricepoint? Are the Cabs posted better, but at a huge toll in diminishing returns? "Be hard on the problem" indicates you feel there is a problem.

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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I wasn't stating my preferences, I was making the suggestion that piobare was overpaying for the quality of the wine and could do better elsewhere. I believe most people in the wine industry would agree with my assessment. I appreciate you feel my comments were antagonistic towards piobare but I'm having a hard time understanding it. It would be great if you could take a sentence or a set of sentences from my post and explain what you found as out of place and unwanted. This will help me moderate my responses in the future. thanks, vp
Not stating your preferences? So....that tells me that your words aren't merely your opinion, but that they are absolute standards?! A tad haughty, wouldn't you agree? Hopefully that has helped answer your questions. IUtoSLU may elaborate further, as could I, but those are the main indicators. Of course, you may have meant it another way, and I don't know you (didn't even know you had a shoe collection), but that's how you come across. ~ Huntsman

Huntsman's post was on point. I'll simply add that almost every single one of your posts, vp, contained a very prominent form of snobbery by implication. See Huntsman's post for details...

Huntsman, thank you for taking the time to write your post. I have posted, written and published on wine for 15 years and have never garnered this type of reaction. Since there are three of you in agreement, I accept that I have offended Piobare, though it was not my intent, and offer my apologies to Piobare. If Piobare wants to continue to post, he can do so without my comments/suggestions in this thread.

Here's what was running through my mind:

<I guess we've been down this path before>
<<Condescending at a minimum, with the implication that some people are too stupid to learn. >>

Simply noting that I've made a similar suggestion to Piobare before.


<<...buy the 2004 beringer knights valley alluvium for about $13, taste blind against the BV and two other cabs, report back.>>
<The staccato voicing again indicates condescension from a superior --a sense that your are rolling your eyes as you typed. Taken with the prior fragment, I'd say you probably were.>

The elipsis (if that's what you mean by stacato) indicates that I'm continuing a thought, too lazy to start a new sentence. I am suggesting that Beringer will perform as well as the BV and its a great deal for $13. In terms of substance, I would think most people would get the implication that the Beringer KV alluvium s worth trying as it performs like an expensive wine. Rather than rolling my eyes condescendingly, I am excited about the prospect of providing information to the forum after taking away so much on the subject of fashion.

<The bolded sections indicate that you are playing the "not an everyman" card so often used in politics, and painting yourself as a sensible, normal guy who understands value for money, in apposition to "the others" who can just buy the purported best without having had to acquire the understanding and depth of knowledge you so clearly possess. This is the snarkiness that so characterizes reverse snobbery.>

My motivation for this post was two-fold. I wanted to state that Piobare was not buying "swill". Instead he is buying high quality wine. The other point was that for some reason, perhaps from other posts, I had the sense that Piobare indeed was well-to-do and I was stating that if that was the case 1) good for him and 2) not worrying about qpr makes sense.

I see you disregard my invitation to break bread, drink some wine and see how the BV performs against other wine.


<Not stating your preferences? So....that tells me that your words aren't merely your opinion, but that they are absolute standards?! A tad haughty, wouldn't you agree?>

I think you will find a general consensus in the industry that the BV is overpriced. I'm not sure why this is haughty.

My sole motivation in writing this was to expose Piobare and others to a wine that might perform as well as the expensive and overpriced BV. There is a river of world class, great wine that can be had for a song and I had hoped to share that information in this thread. On every other (admittedly wine) forum where I've provided similar information, people have thanked me for this information and as I stated, this is a first in terms of reaction. I will definitely think about what I wrote, how it was received and why it wasn't accepted. I won't post in this forum on wine again.

thanks again huntsman for your time and thoughts.

Having no prior experience with vp's posts with regards to Piobaire wine-buying habits, I'd have to say I didn't find his comments offensive/condescending. He was suggesting that the guy try something else in an effort to save himself some money. No one would say that it was condescending to suggest buying AE chelseas over some RM chelseas if the differences were so minute that they were inconsequential to most (purely anecdotal, no need for QPR debates regarding either brand). It seems anyone who considers themselves a connoisseur regarding things traditionally relegated to the wealthier/upper-class take any comment that they can do better for the price as an affront. Perhaps I've misunderstood what all the hub-bub is about.

My palette for wine/spirits/beer is nowhere near as refined as many of yours, but I have the same inclination towards luxury goods as most of you. That being said, I'd love a list of wines to fill my alcoholic coffers without breaking the bank. If I went out and bought a Lafite-Rothschild that could be damned near replicated by a $8 bottle at Trader Joe's, you better fuckwell tell me.

In summation (throws gentlemanly pursuits out of the window), stop getting all butthurt over drinks. They're just drinks. Drink them, enjoy them.

Just shut up and post something you bought

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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Just shut up and post something you bought
Quoted for irony. Recent pickups:

What the **** is Wild Irish Rose? That looks like something a freshman girl would drink.

"Ohmigawd, let's put it in, like, lemonade! Soooo delicious!"

Ahh, kids.

Originally Posted by Connemara

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What the **** is Wild Irish Rose? That looks like something a freshman girl would drink.

"Ohmigawd, let's put it in, like, lemonade! Soooo delicious!"

It's bum wine. In other words: it's right up your alley.

This thread makes my ******* head hurt. Post what you bought and cut the chit chat.

Originally Posted by kronik

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Ahh, kids.

My dad is an odd, extremely cool and nice fellow (think Dakota Rube, including the hazy years in the 70s) and one year at the family Christmas, he bought cases of MadDog and gave them out. He took off their original label and relabeled them with something funny. Say the old lady that liked to hit on younger men got the bottle labeled as some kind of lube with a witty description. The old man got a bottle of liquid viagra, etc.

It was pretty funny, and probably the only good use of MD 20/20 I've ever seen.

Have been getting into my whisky recently and just picked up a bottle of Suntory Yamazaki 12 yr:

Connemara Cask Strength Peated double malt

Might I suggest that since it appears both VP and P want to continue to post here that each does so, with the tact and grace that I know each possesses.

Threads like this are much more informative and rich as a dialogue, rather than a mere show and tell. I, for one, am curious to learn the opinions of others on purchases posted here.

I am also certain that we can each take note of the opinions of others, and express our own, in a gentlemanly fashion.

I hope neither gent steps away from this thread, as a plurality of voices makes this more interesting.

Got a few goodies today.



The 85 Soutard is to add to the line up at a friend's dinner party this Saturday. Fingers crossed it's OK.