basic and affordable stereo system

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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Why not do just an integrated amplifier?

They are fine for the most part unless the amp is not powerful enough to drive the speakers. Not having enough power for the speakers is worse than having too much.

I would spend more time picking speakers, and also spend most of the budget on them.

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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Why not do just an integrated amplifier?

An integrated amplifier is just a receiver without the tuner.

I don't know of any that have good room correction software built in. Certainly no affordable ones. That's why I'd recommend a modern A/V receiver over an integrated.

makes sense.
From what I recall, I loved the clarity of NAD.
I also loved Jolida....I am a musician and play my violin through a botique class A pentode tube amp that is only 5 watts, through a 2x12 cab, I can cut hair with the decibal level I get through it.
So this does not apply here?

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura2010

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An integrated amplifier is just a receiver without the tuner.

I don't know of any that have good room correction software built in. Certainly no affordable ones. That's why I'd recommend a modern A/V receiver over an integrated.

Room 'correction' software is a poor substitute for acoustic treatment. Actually, $700 in rigid fiberglass panels might make an old system sound pretty amazing. The WAF might come into play though.

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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makes sense.
From what I recall, I loved the clarity of NAD.
I also loved Jolida....I am a musician and play my violin through a botique class A pentode tube amp that is only 5 watts, through a 2x12 cab, I can cut hair with the decibal level I get through it.
So this does not apply here?

A lot of those low watt tube amps push a lot more than that. Most wattage ratings on gear is for a brief test burst and not RMS on program material so it is hard to compare between brands unless the manufacturer discloses the details, which typically none do.

NAD makes really good solid state amps for the money.

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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Why not do just an integrated amplifier?

They are fine but they tend to be lower quality than separates but that is a case by case basis. Separates are not really available in your price range however.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

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They are fine but they tend to be lower quality than separates but that is a case by case basis. Separates are not really available in your price range however.

Separates allow for more options for the endless upgrading insanity.

Originally Posted by unpainted huffheinz

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Separates allow for more options for the endless upgrading insanity.

True but there can be value in adding things like a phono stage, balanced inputs, etc.

Originally Posted by unpainted huffheinz

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Room 'correction' software is a poor substitute for acoustic treatment.
That is true. It is also an awful substitute for thoughtful speaker and listening location placement. However, a good room correction system can provide icing on the cake to an already well-tuned system with good speakers. It can also make a system with forced compromises due to aesthetics, WAF, or other factors sound better, albeit not as good as one in a room set up around with audio quality at the forefront. I will say that I was extremely surprised when I first heard Audyssey's MultEQ XT in a system that was already very good, with smart placement of well-engineered controlled-directivity speakers, room treatments to take care of early reflections, and a well-chosen listening spot. So surprised that I spent two grand on a stupid receiver the next day! (My previous receiver was a Panasonic one with those neat DAC-amp chips for no analog stage until the binding posts, and cost me $260.) In my own system, I noticed a similar result. Images tend to be defined more sharply, and the ambience seems to track the size of the original venue much better on well-recorded music. I should save some measurement graphs in FuzzMeasure of my system with Audyssey on and off for the primary three seating positions. The differences are subtle but still audible at the main spot, and much more pronounced and definitely an audible improvement everywhere else. The bass is a different story. EQ and room correction can get you there at one spot, but will usually make everything much worse everywhere else. Multiple subwoofers in randomized locations are an absolute must for high-fidelity bass reproduction across more than a single seating position.

Is there an integrated amp that is worth looking at?
I tend to be a purist in amplifiers for music, mine just has a volume knob....no reverb, no balancing, no gain, and no EQ, just warm power.
I guess I am looking for some clean and clear sound out of an un fussy amp.
HELP?
Also, give me a range of speakers to look at, this is so very helpful.

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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Is there an integrated amp that is worth looking at?
I tend to be a purist in amplifiers for music, mine just has a volume knob....no reverb, no balancing, no gain, and no EQ, just warm power.
I guess I am looking for some clean and clear sound out of an un fussy amp.
HELP?
Also, give me a range of speakers to look at, this is so very helpful.

Nice inexpensive integrated: NAD C352/355
Speakers: Monitor Audio Bronze BR2
CD: Marantz 6002

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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I tend to be a purist in amplifiers for music, mine just has a volume knob....no reverb, no balancing, no gain, and no EQ, just warm power.
There's no such thing as "warm power," unless you're talking about physical heat. Some amplifiers do get warmer than others, and heat is an indication that it might not last long. Electronic parts last longer at lower temperatures. True, there are amplfiers that are not high-fidelity because they markedly roll off the high and low ends of the audible spectrum. Some call them "warm," but I call them "badly designed."

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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I guess I am looking for some clean and clear sound out of an un fussy amp.
Get anything. It really doesn't matter. They're commodity parts that all pretty much sound the same. Judge an amp on how it looks or whatever, not by its "sound." Obsessing about an amp is a waste of audio time that would be better spent pondering things that actually matter, like speakers.

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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Also, give me a range of speakers to look at, this is so very helpful.
The only speakers in your price range that I have heard that sounded halfway decent to me were the KEF iQ models. I have not listened extensively to speakers in that price range, so there may be others. You should probably audition Paradigm, NHT, and Infinity, because people seem to like their less expensive models.

i've been looking at a simple rotel and b&w 600 series stereo setup.

i don't know everyone has their own set of ears but that's what i have been leaning towards. it's a lot more costly than $700 though.

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura2010

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There's no such thing as "warm power," unless you're talking about physical heat. Some amplifiers do get warmer than others, and heat is an indication that it might not last long. Electronic parts last longer at lower temperatures.

True, there are amplfiers that are not high-fidelity because they markedly roll off the high and low ends of the audible spectrum. Some call them "warm," but I call them "badly designed."



Get anything. It really doesn't matter. They're commodity parts that all pretty much sound the same. Judge an amp on how it looks or whatever, not by its "sound." Obsessing about an amp is a waste of audio time that would be better spent pondering things that actually matter, like speakers.



The only speakers in your price range that I have heard that sounded halfway decent to me were the KEF iQ models. I have not listened extensively to speakers in that price range, so there may be others. You should probably audition Paradigm, NHT, and Infinity, because people seem to like their less expensive models.


There is for sure a difference in insturment amps between tube and solid state, especially something with they harmonic density and complexity like a violin.
Perhaps not in home audio, so my bad.

I could care less about how it looks, I want it to be un fussy and easy to use.
I agree on the kef speakers, I have always loved them.

Originally Posted by antirabbit

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There is for sure a difference in insturment amps between tube and solid state, especially something with they harmonic density and complexity like a violin.
I don't disagree entirely. I've heard some modern DSP-based solid state music making gear that I think most if not perhaps all would be hard pressed to tell from the different tube amps they were programed to emulate. But yeah, there is a sonic difference in many instrument amps. The thing is, music making equipment is different from music reproducing equipment. Most instrument amps are explicitly not designed for low distortion and flat frequency response, because the gear is part of the music making process. In home audio, things are different. The electronics aren't supposed to change what the musicians and engineers intended, so flat frequency response and low distortion is the norm in good entry level gear, in so-called "mid-fi" gear, and even in the high end. Only a few things that are too cheap to allow for decent performance, and a bunch of stuff that costs megabucks and looks like it was assembled on someone's kitchen table, deviate from the norm of accurate reproduction. If you want something that sounds like some of the "warmer" instrument amps, look at the ~$30 Sonic Impact T-amp. That may actually be ideal, as you can then spend much more on speakers. As long as you get something that does not have very low impedance and is pretty efficient, you'll probably like the end result. KEFs, which tend to have somewhat low impedance, would not be an ideal matchup.