My opinion on MTM vs. OTR

From what I have learned over the past few years:

1. MTM is needed for someone who have a normal figure but have a large drop because taking in 6 or more inches on the pants would be ruine the balance of the pants.

2. When buying OTR suit, stick with the brand of suits that fit you the best--even if the brand is not known as the best OTR suit maker. Here, when I say the best fit, it means that the jacket which requires least amount (or none) alterations on the shoulders, chest, and armhole. Every other seams can be opened for taking in or out with little risk of messing up the jacket.

3. To get really well fitting suit, you need a bit of luck. Not only you need a good suit to start with but well fitting suit also needs a good performance from your tailor, if it needs alteration. Your tailor is a human who can make mistakes. Hence, if the tailor happens to put his best performance on that day when he is working on your suit then the end result most likely be splended.

Originally Posted by Golf_Nerd

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MTM = made to measure = they take the measure, you decide which fabric is used --> they produce it
bespoke = you meet your tailor and talk about your ideas, then you meet several times again to check the fit and get it finished to perfection

That's not true. You can also meet your MTM tailor several times and talk about your ideas etc. The difference is the pattern and you can find dozens of threads only dedicated to the difference of MTM and bespoke tailoring. A MTM pattern is an adjusted rtw-pattern, where sometimes significant changes are possible, but - like yfyf illustrated - the design will likely remain.
The difference with bespoke is a pattern that is made for you from scratch. And I guess that there are bespoke tailors, who won't talk that much about your ideas of how they should do the lapels of your suit etc., but they make a pattern just for you and therefore they are bespoke tailors.

A friend of mine used a local MTM tailor for his wedding suit and they discussed how the shoulders should fit, how long the jacket should be, how the trousers should be cut etc. pp. He also had two or three fittings. The result was very good and presumably better than an adjusted RTW suit. Not only because he could customize all the features of his suit, but also because of fit.
His tailor uses Scabal MTM, but the tailor is a master tailor ("Master" like the german degree) and knows what he does, but won't be comparable with the best cutters or tailors at Savile Row for example.

There is no such thing as a master tailor, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Degendorff

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That's not true. You can also meet your MTM tailor several times and talk about your ideas etc. The difference is the pattern and you can find dozens of threads only dedicated to the difference of MTM and bespoke tailoring. A MTM pattern is an adjusted rtw-pattern, where sometimes significant changes are possible, but - like yfyf illustrated - the design will likely remain.
The difference with bespoke is a pattern that is made for you from scratch. And I guess that there are bespoke tailors, who won't talk that much about your ideas of how they should do the lapels of your suit etc., but they make a pattern just for you and therefore they are bespoke tailors.

A friend of mine used a local MTM tailor for his wedding suit and they discussed how the shoulders should fit, how long the jacket should be, how the trousers should be cut etc. pp. He also had two or three fittings. The result was very good and presumably better than an adjusted RTW suit. Not only because he could customize all the features of his suit, but also because of fit.
His tailor uses Scabal MTM, but the tailor is a master tailor ("Master" like the german degree) and knows what he does, but won't be comparable with the best cutters or tailors at Savile Row for example.

Originally Posted by MilanoStyle

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There is no such thing as a master tailor, IMHO.

I've heard of Master tailor as well,I wonder what that means.

It's a self righteous title, IMO. Yes, if there was a degree in tailoring which is recognized by universities then I would agree that "master" can mean something.

I have seen so called "master" tailor who does just as sh!tty job as dry cleaner/alteration seamstress.

Originally Posted by forex

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I've heard of Master tailor as well,I wonder what that means.

MTM is required for ppl with irrgular build, such as large drop and muscular upper body.
I've had sucess with Isaia OTR suits, but everytime I find an Isaia suit I like, I always risk the chance of ruining it because my tailor needs to do so much alteration on the pants and sometimes the armholes also need to be deepened. I am pretty much convinced that my next few suits should be MTM/ middle range Bespoke such as WW Chan, as

1) I've filled out most of my basic suits via OTR, and just looking for very specific items going forward that I am convinced I could never find on OTR with good discount (like a nice light gray flnnel suit)

2) I am tired of having my pants recut on evey single of my suit, and tired of tight sleeves. MTM should fix those 2 problems.

I think we've had this discussion in depth a few threads in the past but I will reiterate my take on it:

MTM has a very good chance of yielding a higher level of satisfaction to ready to wear when:
1) You choose a maker and body that is close to the intended silhouette you desire.
2) You value the added level of selection in fabrics and styling details.

The use of a fit garment when ordering mtm is a good way of getting a fit which is very close to what the client envisions as the ideal since it is a tool for the client and the person measuring to communicate what they like/don't like/would like to change.

Also I think the comparisons of mtm to on sale rtw are somewhat flawed since very few people (outside of this forum) have the time/desire to wait and scope out the sales/online, and those living in non-metrolitan areas usually donot have very much selection in store even at regular price much less on sale. When you take into account the opportunity cost of sitting online and looking for deals, trial and error when buying and returning, that suit that someone got on sale is not so cheap afterall.

I may as well weigh in with a resounding "It Depends." It depends on the RTW fit. If you are lucky enough to find a maker whose RTW models fit you well and you like the fabric, etc., then that can be better and often cheaper with minimal tailoring. I think I have found that fit with RLBL. I have some MTM suits and they are good, but I have to say the ones I often go to first are the "right" RTW.

Originally Posted by MilanoStyle

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It's a self righteous title, IMO. Yes, if there was a degree in tailoring which is recognized by universities then I would agree that "master" can mean something.

I have seen so called "master" tailor who does just as sh!tty job as dry cleaner/alteration seamstress.

It's bogus to propose that only universities can bestow or validate the designation of "master". It's similar to saying only MD's count as 'real' doctors (versus, e.g., PhDs). Many trades have a "master" designation. For example, in the US, one can be a master mechanic or master electrician by attaining a certain level of trade certification to work on a sufficiently large variety of, e.g., engine types or electrical systems. I don't know any details about designations in the tailoring trade, but in most trades there is nothing at all "self righteous" about attaining master status - it is a legitimate designation of superior skill and knowledge.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Well, bespoke prices have gone up, too.

And how; generally speaking, bespoke suits from a good tailor start at a minimum of about $4K to start (usually much more or substantially more than that) these days. There are exceptions to this rule (i.e. bespoke suits from a good tailor starting at less or much less than $4K). However, they are few and far between, and extremely or extraordinarily at that (and, therefore, extremely or extraordinarily difficult to find). Plus the farther below $4K the starting price for bespoke suits from a good tailor goes, the fewer and farther between bespoke suits from a good tailor costing less than $4K are.

It's like the old saying goes; you get what you pay for. That applies to clothing and foot wear (especially bespoke clothing and bespoke footwear of all kinds) more than it applies to a vast majority of everything else out there.

According to what an SF member (who may also be an AAAC member) stated in a reply message a while back (I believe the topic was titled "Appeal of High $ RTW from Brands Like Kiton?", if memory serves me correctly), a bespoke suit from Rubinacci now starts at about 4K Euros (which is about $6K).

Sure, but in this case it is not legitimate because a tailor calls himself a master. It was not given by recognizable institution.

Originally Posted by modmica

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it is a legitimate designation of superior skill and knowledge.

Originally Posted by MilanoStyle

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Sure, but in this case it is not legitimate because a tailor calls himself a master. It was not given by recognizable institution.
What about a puppet master. Does he need a degree?

Not all Master Tailors are created alike

Originally Posted by iammatt

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What about a puppet master. Does he need a degree?

Absolutely.

And only Jerry Seinfeld can bestow the title of MMD (Master of My Domain).

Originally Posted by forex

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I've heard of Master tailor as well,I wonder what that means.
From ctda.com "The Custom Tailors & Designers Association (CTDA) is the oldest trade organization in the United States. Founded in 1880 in Columbus, Ohio, it was established as a venue through which ideas and techniques for design, pattern making, fitting, cutting and tailoring could be shared and exchanged." CTDA Merchant Member Classifications: *** Master Tailor – a CTDA member with a lifetime of experience and skill as a bench tailor, who designs, cuts, and tailors a garment on his/her premises. ** Master Custom Designer (MCD) – a CTDA member with more than 4 years experience in the Custom Clothing Industry and who has completed the CTDA Education Program. Courses include Measuring, Fitting & Alterations, Style, Fabrics, Shirts, Blue Pencil, and Business. * Certified Merchant Member (CMM) – a CTDA member with more than 2 years experience in the Custom Clothing Industry, and who has completed the CTDA Education Program Courses “Measuring” and “Fitting & Alterations” and is pursuing status as a Master Custom Designer.