Which martial art is most effective for self defense?

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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first, your story reflect luck more than anything else. I'd have to ask why you felt the need to go back and face the knife, armed with a milk crate? what did you gain from this? second, I am just as stupid, or I was when I was about 15. very similar story - I am out walking aback from some social interaction at age 15, maybe midnight or so. some kid, probrably 18 or more, walking the other way on the sidewalk slaps me, pretty lightly all in all, for no reason. he keeps walking. I turn and yell at him something to the effect of "WTF?". he turns and makes a threatening remark, shows me that he has a large pocket knife. I pull out a straight razor, that for some totally assinine reason I thought was a cool thing to carry around, and I take a few steps forward. he leaves. I continue home. sure, I had a badass attitude. maybe 10 times a year, for the past 20 years, I have thought about that evening, and how lucky I was that I didn't kill him or get killed that night. sure, a knife doesn't end everythign, but it should if you have a brain
Yes I was more than a bit lucky, and I was a lot younger (in more ways than one), and I still drank. But I did not really have any other option besides confrontation. I had run about two blocks and that was no longer an option. I have run from other situations, more than once. I also have learned how to avoid being confronted with this kind of BS to begin with. It did teach me a lesson about people, namely that a lot of folks, particularly those that talk a LOT of **** are not the ones you most need to worry about and simply being willing to stand up for your self can get you out of a lot of trouble. Really I mention the story because it is a real world example of a knife being drawn. What I hate about Eidolon is that he speaks in such ******* absolutes. Stating that all knife fights end in hospitals and death or nobody can ever hope to handle a man with a knife is just such complete bollocks. In the real world there are many intangibles, a fact that is lost on Eidolon and his ilk. All that said, knives are obviously dangerous and are not something I ever want to **** with. I hope I don't come across as taking them or violence in general too lightly.

Originally Posted by Eason

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Anything that gets you to practice hitting people and getting hit in an alive training scenario where you and your partner have conflicting goals. It builds skills and confidence. Note that running is always the better option. If there isn't full contact sparring (I use the term here to describe sparring which is not overly limited to small areas of contact, not 100% force), then skip it.

Absolutely! It isn't so much what martial art is the best, as opposed to your will to use the one you know and skill at implementing it in real life situations, i.e., Katas, forums aren't real world as no one is swinging back at you trying to kick the holy f@cking sh%t out of you. So, pick the art that you like the best and practise full contact fighting.

Originally Posted by the.chikor

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Absolutely! It isn't so much what martial art is the best, as opposed to your will to use the one you know and skill at implementing it in real life situations, i.e., Katas, forums aren't real world as no one is swinging back at you trying to kick the holy f@cking sh%t out of you. So, pick the art that you like the best and practise full contact fighting.

Katas aren't meant to be used in whole, they are used as a way of practicing footwork and specific moves repeatedly. They are not a pattern to be used in self defense, but are rather drills comprised of various techniques, much like military drills. Originally you learned a Kata for FAR longer than you do today, learning all the tiny intricacies of each move over years! Now you learn 3 Katas in 3 months, then move on.

By full contact, do you mean full (or even anywhere near) full force? My martial art included strikes that would seriously injure someone, like to the throat, neck and floating ribs. We also had grapples that would damage ligaments in our opponents. You really think this sort of thing should be practiced 'full contact'???!!?!

Sparing trains you to focus on things like 'points' and teaches you not to injure your opponent. If you are practicing full contact fighting you are either going to end up in hospital semi-regularly, or your martial art isn't worth salt as far as it's self defense application.

Granted it could be a brilliant sport, and sports martial arts do help a little in self defense... but only a little.

Originally Posted by Shraka

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By full contact, do you mean full (or even anywhere near) full force? My martial art included strikes that would seriously injure someone, like to the throat, neck and floating ribs. We also had grapples that would damage ligaments in our opponents. You really think this sort of thing should be practiced 'full contact'???!!?!

Sparing trains you to focus on things like 'points' and teaches you not to injure your opponent. If you are practicing full contact fighting you are either going to end up in hospital semi-regularly, or your martial art isn't worth salt as far as it's self defense application.

Granted it could be a brilliant sport, and sports martial arts do help a little in self defense... but only a little.


I have been through a number of martial arts that practiced "sparing" that tought you how not to injure your opponent. honestly, I think that they are dangerous to the practitioners, because they give you false confidence. my present school works with a lot of body armor and 16 once gloves, and has a few rules (don't aim for the throat being the one that comes to mind), and very few people end up in the hospital. on top of that, we do a lot of excersizes hitting with full force padded shields, striking targets and heavy bags. the difference is night and day.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

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I have been through a number of martial arts that practiced "sparing" that tought you how not to injure your opponent. honestly, I think that they are dangerous to the practitioners, because they give you false confidence. my present school works with a lot of body armor and 16 once gloves, and has a few rules (don't aim for the throat being the one that comes to mind), and very few people end up in the hospital. on top of that, we do a lot of excersizes hitting with full force padded shields, striking targets and heavy bags. the difference is night and day.
Full force paddles / pads are good. But learning not to bunch to the throat is limiting your ability to defend yourself. In a real fight you will go on autopilot, and you will just do whatever you have practiced. Also, arm locks that are dangerous to the joint are a viable defense technique, but you can't do it in sparring because body armour doesn't protect your joints.

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Martial Arts and Real World Self Defense/Fighting

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Tim's Discussion Board: Concepts : Martial Arts and Real World Self Defense/Fighting

a contribution to this fine thread...

I love how grappling is referred to as teh grapples in this thread.

By full contact, do you mean full (or even anywhere near) full force? My martial art included strikes that would seriously injure someone, like to the throat, neck and floating ribs. We also had grapples that would damage ligaments in our opponents. You really think this sort of thing should be practiced 'full contact'???!!?!

Sparing trains you to focus on things like 'points' and teaches you not to injure your opponent. If you are practicing full contact fighting you are either going to end up in hospital semi-regularly, or your martial art isn't worth salt as far as it's self defense application.

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Sparring only trains you to focus on things like points if you are doing point sparring- which I believe to be worse than worthless. Never mind that submissions (a series of grapples!) damage ligaments or bones and are easily practiced with full resistance without injury, but how do you think you are going to be able to perform your "deadly" techniques when you've never applied them against a fully resistant opponent? To practice an eye jab, you first learn how to apply a jab, and then you can modify it by extending fingers. Think an eye gouge is going to save you? Not if you don't know how to achieve a dominant position and hold it. I've heard so many claims saying the same thing about "deadly" moves, and other excuses for not sparring. None of them hold any water.

P.S. the saying about knife fighting from my kali teacher was "The winner goes to the hospital, the loser goes to the morgue."

This is all you need

Originally Posted by Eason

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Sparring only trains you to focus on things like points if you are doing point sparring- which I believe to be worse than worthless. Never mind that submissions (a series of grapples!) damage ligaments or bones and are easily practiced with full resistance without injury, but how do you think you are going to be able to perform your "deadly" techniques when you've never applied them against a fully resistant opponent? To practice an eye jab, you first learn how to apply a jab, and then you can modify it by extending fingers. Think an eye gouge is going to save you? Not if you don't know how to achieve a dominant position and hold it. I've heard so many claims saying the same thing about "deadly" moves, and other excuses for not sparring. None of them hold any water.

P.S. the saying about knife fighting from my kali teacher was "The winner goes to the hospital, the loser goes to the morgue."

We did some of the less dangerous full force moves, against targets that knew it was coming so could be ready for it, and flow with the attack, rather than resisting it and hurting themselves more. We practiced attacks against pads, as well as full force drills (I throw a punch, it gets blocked, they counter punch, I block, repeat). I was once drilling elbow strikes with someone and got through his guard. I nearly split the side of his face open, and he needed to sit down for a bit before he could return to the drill. After that he couldn't cover as strongly, so I slowed it back and focused on my body motion and technique rather than full force attacks for the rest of the drill.

Some of our grapples are likely to pop joints out, or damage ligaments. Either you're just fine with the idea of damaging your body, or your joint locks and submission holds aren't as aggressive as ours.

I'm not saying my technique is deadly. There are only a few strikes that have a real chance of causing death (some of the back of the neck attacks, and throat attacks). It doesn't have to be deadly to injure you, possibly permanently. I did martial arts to learn to defend myself from serious injury, not to practice getting injured.

Originally Posted by jml90

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This is all you need

I love Van Halen!!! Was this on their latest tour?

i am suprised no one has mentioned modern arnis yet the mixture that Presa created seems to be pretty effective., particulary if you carry a cane.

Originally Posted by scarphe

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i am suprised no one has mentioned modern arnis yet the mixture that Presa created seems to be pretty effective., particulary if you carry a cane.
+1 on the effectiveness of Presas, Roy and the late Visitacion.

Arnis and it's related arts (kalis osli) can be deadly. My co worker trains and spars with sticks as well as sharp blades. It develops and hones handtechniques and timing like few other arts.

Originally Posted by scarphe

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particulary if you carry a cane.

dont we all?

But agreed, the Pinoy-stick-styles are great.

although, one problem with arnis is that they have been known to teach special "non-lethal" knife moves that have gotten idiots to try them out in situations that they really shouldn't have.