Bentley v Rolls Royce

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

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That car is as related to a street CLK as a NASCAR stock car is to a Camry, which is to say not at all. It's a pure racecar with an outer skin that looks like a CLK.

I agree though that the SLR is not really the height of sporty car design, as it was severely hamstrung by MB's requirements (eg. front-engined, automatic transmission, etc.). Other than the McLaren F1 team, MB these days is not a name I would associate with motorsports.



Going to the track for a driving school is not the same thing as racing.

--Andre
Actually Andrew you have to go several post back to get the point, it was more in reference to the AMG CLK Black edition being MB's recent best possible car for the track.

If you can think of a better car in their arsenal, please tell.....but I've always thought of them as more of a luxury auto maker.

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

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The difference is pretty big. Driving schools generally don't allow timing, and people are grouped according to their skill level and car's performance. While the underlying concepts are the same, school driving and race driving aim for completely different goals, and are dramatically different as a result. --Andre
Oh I thought you (and linux_pro) were talking about track days, which certainly do let you time your laps (and provide you with a timer).

Originally Posted by Shraka

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Ha ha, I love that. We have the same thing with V8 Supercars down here, 'cept they look almost exactly like the road going version. It causes lots of confusion among bogans (rednecks) that assume that the race reflects on their own cars somehow. They still race with 5.0ltr pushrod engines, but Holden (GM) uses a 5.7 or 6.0ltr V8 engine in it's road cars now, and Ford uses a DOHC setup. Not to mention almost everything else on the car is totally different.



I'd call that splitting hairs.
Yeah Ford has had the DOHC (modular) set up for some time, especially the 5.0L cammer (which costs more than several of their cars).

The 7.0L 427 LS7 is another a story, it may be OHV....but it's fairly hi-tech in materials and design. Plus I love the misconception in relation to the size of the engine, very few people know that it's actually more compact and weighs essentially the same as the inline 6 in the last generation M3's. Then again the engine design is essentially derived from the Corvette Racing's C6R.

Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe

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Yeah Ford has had the DOHC (modular) set up for some time, especially the 5.0L cammer (which costs more than several of their cars).

The 7.0L 454 LS7 is another a story, it may be OHV....but it's fairly hi-tech in materials and design. Plus I love the misconception in relation to the size of the engine, very few people know that it's actually more compact and weighs essentially the same as the inline 6 in the last generation M3's.

The last generation M3 used a cast iron block though, of course it's going to be heavier!

Yes, the one good thing about pushrods is it makes your engine more compact. There's no tall head that has to have all the cam gear in it, although I still think they're dinosaur tech and really have no business being in a modern engine. Also, Inline 6s are the longest engine type other than V12s, although I imagine some V10s might come in a bit longer than certain I6s. Depends on the design of the specific engine. It's also one of the best and most naturally balanced layouts.

Originally Posted by Shraka

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The last generation M3 used a cast iron block though, of course it's going to be heavier!

Yes, the one good thing about pushrods is it makes your engine more compact. There's no tall head that has to have all the cam gear in it, although I still think they're dinosaur tech and really have no business being in a modern engine. Also, Inline 6s are the longest engine type other than V12s, although I imagine some V10s might come in a bit longer than certain I6s. Depends on the design of the specific engine. It's also one of the best and most naturally balanced layouts.
I see nothing wrong with an engine which is reliable, runs to 7 grand, posts great torque/ power numbers, and weighs less than some 6 cylinders and most v8's. I'm usually more interested in the engines output, rather than the actual technological design, however the fact the LS7 is composed of titanium, aluminum and has the compression ratio of a highend supercar ....makes me all the more impresssed. Maybe you can find some cons (outside of older technology), but I can't think of too much wrong, with the LS7 design.

....and remember, inline engines are a fairly old technology dating all the way back to Ford Model A's. I do agree about inlines being better balanced, however they barely make great applications for performance cars, because of their size and weight (the Supra and M3 are the only exceptions).

From the good old days: The Uhlenhaut Coupe based on the 300 SLR



Of the nine W196s chassis built, one was destroyed in the Le Mans disaster. Of the eight that remained (and prior to the accident) Mercedes motorsport chief Rudolf Uhlenhaut had ordered two to be set aside for modification into a sort of hybrid between the SLR and the SL, featuring a slightly widened version of the SLR's chassis with enclosed bodywork for aerodynamic purposes. Again, the strong, high sill beams of the spaceframe required the fitment of the same famous 'gull-wing' top-hinged doors of the other two types. For testing, and in preparation for a possible Mercedes participation in the 1956 race season, two road-legal SLRs were built. After the disaster, and Mercedes' planned withdrawal from competitive motorsport at the end of 1955, the programme was abandoned, leaving Uhlenhaut to use one of the cars as a company car. This prolonged road use required the fitting of an extra suitcase-sized muffler to the near-unsilenced exhaust pipes to avoid arrest for breach of the peace.

This Uhlenhaut Coupà was regarded as the world's fastest car in the 1950s, and it is rumoured that, running late for a meeting, Uhlenhaut exploited the unlimited autobahns to make todays' two-and-a-half-hour journey from Munich to Stuttgart in just over an hour.[3]. The Uhlenhaut Coupe was road tested by the US magazine Motor Trend and by two English journalists from Automobile Revue at four o'clock in the morning on a closed section of motorway outside Munich. The latter wrote; "We are driving a car which barely takes a second to overtake the rest of the traffic and for which 120 mph on a quiet motorway is little more than walking pace. With its unflappable handling through corners, it treats the laws of centrifugal force with apparent disdain," after a total of more than 2,000 miles. His only regret was that this was a sports car "which we will never be able to buy and which the average driver would never buy anyway."

^^^

And that's what I'm lost about, in 50's Benz made great sporting and race cars, however today, they've allowed BMW to take over the sport-luxury segment.

BTW....that car is absolutely beautiful, I wonder how many are still in existance, I'm sure it's a small fortune, given the fact gullwing 300 SL's are priced quite outrageous (and rightfully so).

Amazing how this thread derailed into some Mercedes-Benz e-organ comparison after linux_pro brayed that Bentleys were for nouveau riche poseurs. Do we want to give him that much power over our judgment? That said, the Bentley coupe, while beautiful, is a bit Footballers' Wives.

There was a exhibition in Vienna's Technical Museum recently: Chromjuwelen - cromejewels. Unfortunately the cromejewels-site, does not work.

The car was on display: Just amazing...

IIRC, there are only the two left, which are in the MB museum in Stuttgart.

MB had a strong appearence in the "old" DTM-Trophy with the 190-2.3-16V. Beginning of the nineties they competed with BMW and Audi and took the trophy in 92 with Bernd Schneider.

Originally Posted by RJman

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Do we want to give him that much power over our judgment? That said, the Bentley coupe, while beautiful, is a bit Footballers' Wives.
No In the old days, I would say RR and Bentley were on an equal status. Except of the driver's rule, of course. Btw, does anybody know, where this comes from? The Continental GT maybe, the Brooklands, no

Originally Posted by fritzl

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In the old days, I would say RR and Bentley were on an equal status. Except of the driver's rule, of course. Btw, does anybody know, where this comes from?

I imagine this came about when RR bought Bentley, which at one time had made cars used in racing, and wished to differentiate the two brands it now owned.

Originally Posted by RJman

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I imagine this came about when RR bought Bentley, which at one time had made cars used in racing, and wished to differentiate the two brands it now owned.
My grandfather was driven around in a Bentley. I guess he was breaking the rules . I wouldn't drive either. They are ugly as sin.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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My grandfather was driven around in a Bentley. I guess he was breaking the rules

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Could he run over linux_pro for us?

Originally Posted by iammatt

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I wouldn't drive either. They are ugly as sin.

Really?

Originally Posted by RJman

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Could he run over linux_pro for us?

Unfortunately, I don't do seances.

Originally Posted by Brad

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Really?

Looks like a big Cadillac .