Zegna MTM

[bishop24]

Am fairly new to the forum and have been lurking and reading like a fiend. You guys are seriously great and I'm learning a ton.

Went in the other week to get measured for a Zegna MTM 3-piece charcoal pinstripe at Harry Rosen (I'm in Toronto). Having no experience in MTM and only a very basic understanding of what the available customization options are, I mostly just answered the questions that the tailor asked. What worries me is that he didn't ask about surgeon's cuffs, a ticket pocket, or even discuss styles of lapels. At the time, I wasn't well enough informed to know about the differences, but after spending some time with you guys I know better.

I've read some threads here indicating that for the price you pay, you should expect satisfaction with the suit, but that's often been expressed in instances in which the customer indicated a preference and that preference was clearly not met. My question is whether, when I go in for my fitting, I should feel justified in demanding the suit be remade with surgeon's cuffs or peak lapels (for example) if they aren't present since these were options never presented to me in the first place? Or is this a case of buyer beware--a case of doing my homework a little too late?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[Tomasso]

Originally Posted by bishop24

My question is whether, when I go in for my fitting, I should feel justified in demanding the suit be remade with surgeon's cuffs or peak lapels (for example) if they aren't present since these were options never presented to me in the first place? Or is this a case of buyer beware--a case of doing my homework a little too late?

Don't worry, it's not too late to get your surgeons cuffs, although at this point they are the least of your problems. Yes, you were unprepared and you should have dealt with Zegna reps at a trunk show, where you would have been better taken care of. You can plead ignorance and ask for some changes but to some degree you should look at it as a learning experience. Try to consider it your first step in a long journey.

 

[Jovan]

The most important question is if you've paid for it yet...

 

[Fritz]

When you ordered, you didn’t have a precise idea of what you wanted. Therefore in my opinion you are served quite well with the standard fare, like notch lapels. Deviations from the standard need to be well thought out to work. For example you mention getting a three-piece pinstripe, a very formal suit. And then you complain about not being informed about ticket pockets, a rather sporty detail. Now, I’m not saying it can’t be done. But you need to be conscious of what you’re doing to get something that works for you. As Tomasso said, look at it as a learning experience.

That said, I can certainly understand being disappointed at not being presented the full range of options.

 

[A Londoner]

I don't think you should be upset about details like that. There are so many things that you could want, that a tailor is not obliged to present you with a complete menu. He should ask you about the "usual" things, but is entitled to expect you to ask him about anything out of the ordinary. For instance, I think a tailor would be justified in assuming a notch collar on a single breasted suit, unless it was a dinner jacket. SB peak collar is sufficiently "odd" (I don't say incorrect, but certainly unusual) that the customer can be expected to ask. There are other details so arcane (e.g., whether sleeve buttons are spaced or kiss, how the lapel buttonhole is finished) that I think most tailors would feel that it is "left to them" (and their standard style) unless the customer chooses to express a view on it. In fact, I think you should probably be happy anyway. There's a temptation when you first go MTM (even worse if it's bespoke) to get too fancy, and produce a rather eccentric garment. A good tailor will tolerate and even sometimes welcome eccentricity (though he may guide the client away from truly dreadful choices), but there's a lot to be said for getting a good straightforward classic suit, especially as a first purchase. There may be a tendency to add odd little features, such as ticket pockets, turned back cuffs, double-breasted waistcoats, odd linings and the like to a suit simply to demonstrate that it has been made for you. In moderation this is delightful. In excess it is vulgar. At least, by keeping things simple, you will avoid vulgarity. (One question: I thought "surgeon's cuffs" were a shirt-making term (for cuffs that can be taken off, like a detachable collar). I've never heard of them on a suit. Ah well ...)

 

[Fritz]

"žSurgeon's cuffs" means that the cuff buttons work. So theoretically you could open them, fold them over and then perform surgery without taking the coat off.

 

[The False Prophet]

I think the heart of the matter comes down to house style. I'm a big fan of Zegna, and quite simply, one never sees SB peaked lapels, ticket pockets, etc EVER on their RTW. They simply aren't part of the picture that Zegna paints, and for this reason, would probably look a bit "off" on a Zegna suit.

That said, the Su Misura Zegna block is absolutely gorgeous, and I think you'll be really happy with it!

Curiously, when I took my last Zegna to my alterations tailor, she ignored my instructions and softened the shoulder even more than it already was. It looked weird at the time, but I absolutely love it now! Sometimes, they know you better than you do..

 

[zjpj83]

Originally Posted by The False Prophet

Curiously, when I took my last Zegna to my alterations tailor, she ignored my instructions and softened the shoulder even more than it already was. It looked weird at the time, but I absolutely love it now! Sometimes, they know you better than you do..
By removing some of the shoulder padding?

 

[GQgeek]

I wouldn't worry about the surgeon's cuffs. They'll likely ship the suit to HR with the cuffs un-finished, although it could be worth putting in a phone call to HR just to be sure. The chances are that they haven't made your suit yet.

 

[MilanoStyle]

Ok, I do not know which HR shop you went and got Zegna suit measured but I suggest that do not get surgent cuffs done at HR, they can really mess things up, unless ask your sales person to take the suit to HR bespoke shop and have those guys make buttonholes.

 

[bishop24]

Thanks for all the advice. I never wanted a ticket pocket or peak lapels to begin with, but I was using those as examples of some customization options that I was never presented which could have indicated many more that weren't given to me that I still am not aware of. I can understand why more eccentric options would not always be offered outright (as disappointed as I may be about that prospect), especially to a customer who was undergoing MTM for the first time. You'd think they would at least try and educate the customer a little about the process. Regardless, I think I'm over-thinking the whole experience and I should probably trust that the suit will arrive beautiful.

This *is* the first step in a long journey and I think this very experience will have me coming back with a much clearer idea of what I want the next time I purchase a MTM suit. So hopefully this won't happen again.

As for some answers to questions:
- HR asks for a 25% downpayment when the measurements are taken. The balance is paid when you pick up the suit.
- The store I went to is HR's Bloor Street location in Yorkville. I'm not sure what you mean, MilanoStyle, when you refer to a HR bespoke shop, but I imagine if any HR location would be able to do surgeon's cuffs, it would be there?

For you Torontonians, I remember reading a while back that one of the long-installed master tailors at the Bloor Street HR decided to move across the street (to the south side) to open his own tailoring shop. I've passed by his door several times, but never gone in. Does anyone have any experiences with him, positive or negative? What MTM/bespoke lines does he carry? I think I was reading a very old thread that someone mentioned that this might be a place in Toronto that carried Attolini, but he may have been referencing another boutique...

 

[MilanoStyle]

Bishop,

1. Talk to your sales person. Tell them you want your suits to have hand-stitched buttonholes for the sleeves. You may regret getting machine made buttonholes. Often they do not look very good. At the basement level of Bloor HR, you can find Harry's bespoke shop. They may be able to do hand made buttonholes for you.

2. The shop that carries Attolini is store is located right across from HR bloor. The store name is 83 Bloor and it sure is no bespoke shop. It is real high end B&M store. Their Attolini section is real small and old. If I had $$$ to buy Attolini suits at a retail cost, I would rather head down to Vecca and get it from there.

 

[cappyg00k]

bishop24, I'm at that store all the time, but I don't think that's how MTM works. I thought MTM meant they work from a specific 'block' (i.e., style of suit which includes silhouette, lapels, pockets, etc.) and then just take the various measurements so it fits you (e.g., chest, sleeve, waist, etc.) But as for actually changing a suit from notch lapel to peaked, that's a different block; it was my understanding that's full bespoke then.

Anyway, I might be wrong about that but I really wouldn't worry about it too much; you're buying a suit! not a gadget. If the silhouette is good on you, fits well, and the wool looks good on your skin, it's all good d00d.

 

[MilanoStyle]

Choices of body shape and detail of the coat of MTM service are limited to pre-defined templates that Zegna offers. If you do not see a template of shape and detail that you are looking for then you are not going to get it from avg. MTM services, You would need Bespoke service or MTM service from top suit makers that would cost you $10,000K CAD such as Kiton.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by MilanoStyle

Ok, I do not know which HR shop you went and got Zegna suit measured but I suggest that do not get surgent cuffs done at HR, they can really mess things up, unless ask your sales person to take the suit to HR bespoke shop and have those guys make buttonholes.

This is a very good point Milano. You have to make sure that they have the bespoke guys do your surgeon's cuffs. The surgeon's cuffs I had done on a MTM Armani in 2002 before the Montreal bespoke shop opened are not nearly as good as the ones that are on my bespoke jacket or on the Borrelli jackets that I've had them do surgeon's cuffs for. I think they default to doing them by machine unless you specify otherwise. I'm sure they do this so as not to overburden their bespoke operation with surgeon's cuffs for MTM suits.