Your favorite shirts brand?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ernest, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    But this "line" goes with better sens of details and takes time and fabrics so shirts without it should be cheaper.
     


  2. Pierre

    Pierre Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Ernest,

    I'm glad I mis-interpreted the tone of your first answer. I'm all for testing and I will try an H&K next week if I like what I see in the shop.

    I tend to have a global look at the shirt rather than go for details. I either like it or not. It fits or not. Technical details are for the tailor, not for me. But to each is own.

    I don't think I'm guilty of 'primary nationalism'. I'm Belgian and live in France for 5 years only. Of course buying a H&K in Paris will put a bit of money in the distribution channel. But the main part will go in H&K pocket, whatever their capital mix is.

    I think it is worth supporting local brands (if they are good of course). It is more explicit with hifi: a Normandie based company (Atoll), 5 people or so, is able to produce CD players and amplifiers that are best buys in the 600-1000 EUR range. So, workforce cost is not the end of story; dedication and craftmanship are important too. I want to reward that and preserve it.

    Excuse my laziness but Figaret is 5 minutes away from the office (Champs ElysÃ[​IMG]es). Rivoli is soooo far way.

    Cheers,
    P.
     


  3. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    You can buy them in Paris.... What the good news.

    Figaret is not crap but H&K is a better deal.

    If you go to London, could you buy a shirt for me? You can see it on the website but it is not available in Paris anymore.
    I give you euros when you come back (between 45 and 43 GBP in London) with my shirt.

    In Jeremyn street you can try Harvie&Hudson = 3 shirts for 99 GBP last sales instead of 65 GBP per shirt.

    P.S. Les pointes des cols Figaret on tendance à plier, je me trompe?
     


  4. BGW

    BGW Senior member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Not necessarily. You can make a split yoke out of two smaller pieces of fabric, allowing for more efficient fabric usage. It is an empirical question as to which effect dominates.

    But the deeper point is that you are not getting anything of *value* from the increased cost of production.
     


  5. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    H&K is at station CONCORDE.......

    Bad point for them = sellers (pas sympa du tout, hypocrites...)

    So better buy in London if you go to.
     


  6. Pierre

    Pierre Member

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004

    I said I like Figaret shirts style. If they are not conservative so be it. I don't like stripes and squares on my shirts. I like them plain (I thought plain was conservative but I don't mind being excentric if this is what plain is).

    I specified my taste in shirt patterns as it explains I don't even know if Figaret matches patterns.

    I guess you understand your syllogism is plain wrong as it starts with the wrong assumption (me liking conservatism for the sake of it).

    Cheers,
    P.

    Damn with all this chatting. I already loose too much time ironing shirts. No I loose some more talking about them.
     


  7. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    Not with STRIPES
     


  8. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Location:
    Bay Area
    perhaps in the strictest utilitarian sense, yes...however, in questions of style, not only are very few people concerned primarily with stripping away anything non-utilitarian, but the definition of the word itself becomes slippery and (dare i say it) subjective. one man's utility is another man's folly. the gusset, for example: maybe for some it is a symbol. symbols can be seen as having utility - it engenders a confidence in the quality of the shirt, perhaps. or maybe it gives some meaning to the wearer, as a type of secret. (much like wearing boxers of some wild color or pattern.) of course carrying this logic to an extreme gives us the fashion victim who proudly displays gucci logos on every conceivable surface of his clothes and accessories. (i saw such a clown just yesterday, sad to see.) i think there is an acceptable, even appropriate, level of non-utilitarian 'ornament' if you will, in being well-dressed. the key in terms of classic gentlemen's style could be the intersection of confident self-expression with restrained understatement. (or 'understated restraint'? [​IMG] ) personally i enjoy seeing some 'useless' details that describe some vestigial function or simply create a more aesthetic appearance (ties, anyone? jacket sleeve buttons...button-down collars...etc. the list is long.) /andrew
     


  9. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    ...deeper point is that you are not getting anything of *value* from the increased cost of production.
    perhaps in the strictest utilitarian sense, yes...however, in questions of style, not only are very few people concerned primarily with stripping away anything non-utilitarian, but the definition of the word itself becomes slippery and (dare i say it) subjective. one man's utility is another man's folly. the gusset, for example: maybe for some it is a symbol. symbols can be seen as having utility - it engenders a confidence in the quality of the shirt, perhaps. or maybe it gives some meaning to the wearer, as a type of secret. (much like wearing boxers of some wild color or pattern.) of course carrying this logic to an extreme gives us the fashion victim who proudly displays gucci logos on every conceivable surface of his clothes and accessories. (i saw such a clown just yesterday, sad to see.) i think there is an acceptable, even appropriate, level of non-utilitarian 'ornament' if you will, in being well-dressed. the key in terms of classic gentlemen's style could be the intersection of confident self-expression with restrained understatement. (or 'understated restraint'? Â [​IMG] ) personally i enjoy seeing some 'useless' details that describe some vestigial function or simply create a more aesthetic appearance (ties, anyone? jacket sleeve buttons...button-down collars...etc. the list is long.) /andrew
    It is not proved that gusset has no use.... I know you have severals type of gussets, some are just for fun and some plays in the quality of stiching. Check on kabaze website...
     


  10. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    Albert Golberg from Faconnable have got fantastic fabrics but @ 150 euros at least.

    But collars and cuffs are fused, no split yoke, italian collar.
     


  11. montecristo#4

    montecristo#4 Senior member

    Messages:
    12,263
    Likes Received:
    18
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Location:
    Reagan Country (Massachusetts)
    Well, here's my $0.02.

    - Eton slim-fit "trend" shirts are the best MTM shirts I've found. For some reason, they fit me perfectly, are stylish, have MOP buttons, and are produced from a specially woven fabric that requires zero ironing. Perfect.
    - For pure price/performance, Janzten is the hands-down winner.
    - For funkier styles I prefer Paul Smith over Etro.

    My failed experiments in shirts include:

    - Literally dozens of shirts I had made by a guy in Boston. Well constructed, but poorly fit. I didn't know any better at the time.
    - An abortive attempt to try custom at New & Lingwood. The reference shirt they made for me was so far off the mark in terms of fit I just gave up completely.

    M#4
     


  12. TCN

    TCN Senior member

    Messages:
    1,505
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    I think you're spot on, with all due respect to the notion that including these traditional elements shows a concern with "traditional quality" on the part of the shirtmaker. Frankly, nice buttons (perhaps handswen), single-needle stitching, and a nice fabric would go further in impressing me than a gussett and a split yoke on a RTW shirt. A RTW Charvet, at least the ones I've seen, do not feature a gussett or a split yoke, but the shirt is exquisitely made. Of course I'm a bit of a Francophile (and Anglophile), so perhaps I'm biased. [​IMG]
     


  13. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Location:
    Cygnus X-1
    From my meagre experience: RTW: Attolini, Borrelli (from the boutique, not the ones made for department stores), and Barba. Custom: I have one Kiton custom that I adore, and I've heard wonderful things about Maffeis (of which I have a RTW), and Battistoni (of which I also have a RTW). Wish I would've gotten at least ONE Matuozzo the last time I was in Naples [​IMG] koji
     


  14. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

    Messages:
    7,805
    Likes Received:
    66
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Location:
    Heart of America
    I'm sorry you had to deal with that jerk of a sales clerk.

    Ike Behar certainly isn't "the best," but I think they're nothing to raise a nostril at, either. It's a fine RTW shirt, especially at the Marshall's/TJMaxx discount. I own two, one purchased at $25 the other at $16. That's value for the money.

    Behar ties, by the way, are also an excellent value for ~$16 at Marshall's/TJMaxx.
     


  15. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    An abortive attempt to try custom at New & Lingwood. The reference shirt they made for me was so far off the mark in terms of fit I just gave up completely.


    I had the same with liste rouge..... And with another "tailor". Whats why I were so happy to find H&K.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by