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Your advice sought on ebay dispute

Discussion in 'B&S Archive' started by mack11211, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. tonylumpkin

    tonylumpkin Senior member

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    Right; I don't state in the auction that I am self-insuring, just that insurance is included in the S&H. But of course if the buyer says the package does not arrive and checking the tracking number does in fact confirm this, I will refund the buyer out of my pocket.

    Man...you guys are getting into some dicey stuff here.
     
  2. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    What about getting the shipments actually insured by an insurance company - is that possible?
     
  3. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, you can do that. And btw I'm not advocating self insurance. I insure all my packages the regular way.
     
  4. Tarmac

    Tarmac Senior member

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    my head just exploded [​IMG]
     
  5. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    Wait, you smell that?
    Not the same thing, really. This is a potentially complicated area, and particular laws or regulations, or factual twists, may kick in the change the default rule in particular circumstances. But as an initial principle of contract law, if the seller makes on offer on specific, clearly communicated terms, acceptance of that offer is deemed acceptance of the offer in its entirety (that is, of all of the stated terms).

    Is this true LD? I thought the buyer typically makes an offer to the "advertisment" of the auction. This may be different for auctions, but it's the buyer making an offer to purchase, I thought. Well, that's the extent of my "analysis."
     
  6. auto90403

    auto90403 Senior member

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    Not the same thing, really. This is a potentially complicated area, and particular laws or regulations, or factual twists, may kick in the change the default rule in particular circumstances. But as an initial principle of contract law, if the seller makes on offer on specific, clearly communicated terms, acceptance of that offer is deemed acceptance of the offer in its entirety (that is, of all of the stated terms).

    I knew that sooner or later a lawyer would show up and make precisely your claim.

    Yes, it's a potential complicated area turning on particular laws, regulations and factual twists, and your assertion that the seller's offer has to be accepted in its entirety is generally speaking sound.

    But will you also agree that contract law, generally speaking, as it pertains to the simple sale of goods and services between a buyer and seller who come together for a one-time transaction, does not require each party to engage the services of a lawyer to parse the precise meaning of the offer and its acceptance by the buyer?

    Common law, UCC, and public policy more generally want these kinds of sales to be concluded with as little friction as possible, with the lowest possible transaction costs.

    Having a seller unilaterally opt out of his obligation to perform his contractual obligation (as that obligation is commonly understood), while keeping the buyer's money, does nothing to facilitate commerce.

    Which is why, generally speaking, for these kinds of transactions, the policy is to hold each party responsible for performing.

    The buyer is responsible for paying (and being able to prove he paid). The seller is responsible for delivering merchandise as promised, with all the implied warranties as to its advertised quality and performance and so on.
     
  7. knowsnothin

    knowsnothin Senior member

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    Legal-schmegal! No one is going to court over this.

    The bottom line is that unless you return the $40, you will get your first negative feedback.

    Only you can place a value on your perfect 100% score. Is it worth $40, or not?


    As I have already made the mistake of attempting to provide practical advise, instead of billing the hell out this, I see no reason to change now. Thus, because of my excessive billable rate, I'm going to quote my earlier post rather than provide something different.

    And to my fellow members of the bar who responded on this thread, please post your billable rates and the time you spent responding so we can come up with a reasonable "bill" for the time spent attempting to provide a legal opinion on this $40 dispute.

    As I spent 12 minutes so far, I'm in for $98.50. From reading some of the more well reasoned responsed, I figure the total billable hours must be in the $2,000 range. Well played I say. This is why we lawyers always win!
     
  8. rnoldh

    rnoldh Senior member

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    As I have already made the mistake of attempting to provide practical advise, instead of billing the hell out this, I see no reason to change now. Thus, because of my excessive billable rate, I'm going to quote my earlier post rather than provide something different.

    And to my fellow members of the bar who responded on this thread, please post your billable rates and the time you spent responding so we can come up with a reasonable "bill" for the time spent attempting to provide a legal opinion on this $40 dispute.

    As I spent 12 minutes so far, I'm in for $98.50. From reading some of the more well reasoned responsed, I figure the total billable hours must be in the $2,000 range. Well played I say. This is why we lawyers always win!


    If a pair of pants is worth $54,000,000 to a lawyer, then you are selling yourself out cheap for $98.50![​IMG]
     
  9. amerikajinda

    amerikajinda Senior member

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    As I spent 12 minutes so far, I'm in for $98.50.

    Your billable rate is $492.50/hr? You must be a third-year associate?
     
  10. tonylumpkin

    tonylumpkin Senior member

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    Your billable rate is $492.50/hr? You must be a third-year associate?
    Yes, but considering his user I.D. he may well be overpriced at that.[​IMG]
     
  11. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    Ran into this listing on another message board. Talk about StyleForum's influence. [​IMG]

    Also, Mack, any update on the situation?
     
  12. knittieguy

    knittieguy Senior member

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    As I have already made the mistake of attempting to provide practical advise, instead of billing the hell out this, I see no reason to change now. Thus, because of my excessive billable rate, I'm going to quote my earlier post rather than provide something different.

    And to my fellow members of the bar who responded on this thread, please post your billable rates and the time you spent responding so we can come up with a reasonable "bill" for the time spent attempting to provide a legal opinion on this $40 dispute.

    As I spent 12 minutes so far, I'm in for $98.50. From reading some of the more well reasoned responsed, I figure the total billable hours must be in the $2,000 range.


    This should qualify for pro bono, don't you think?
     
  13. mack11211

    mack11211 Senior member

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    Also, Mack, any update on the situation?

    I decided to give the guy his money back.

    Had it never arrived at all, I might not have. I've declined to refund money for items in lost parcels in the past, so long as I could prove I shipped them. But a box showing up empty is a first, and I hope a last.

    But looking at the empty box stamped 'received unsealed' and 'received without contents' by the USPS, I feel bad. I hate these little stupid USPS Priority Mail shipping boxes. The larger ones close differently. I always tape the edges regardless.

    In the end, my choice was based on a mix of legal interpretation and sentiment.
     
  14. johnpemberton

    johnpemberton Senior member

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    In the UK, the seller is responsible for the safe delivery of an item, whether it is insured or not. The buyer is protected until the item arrives (safely) in their hands. It may be different in the US. I personally send all items fully insured, then there is no dispute! Also paypal love buyers, and hate sellers - so the buyer will always get their money back! Bring on Google checkout!

    John [​IMG][​IMG]
     

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