bernoulli
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My purpose in this post is to provide forumnites with updated information on these venues so people can make informed decisions.
I have been a client of WW Chan for a few years now. They have not provided perfect execution every time but till last week they were the only bespoke tailors I have tried. It has been a pleasant experience overall (as you will see by the fact I had a recent batch of things made in March 2014), but there were a few issues. Here is the rundown.
Batting average: till the recent batch I have had 7 suits, 3 shirts, and 4 sport coats made at WW Chan. Of these, one time I had a horrendous result on 2 SC. There was some back and forth and I got a full refund in the end (including the import duties, since they were shipped overseas). No complaints there other than some pissed off nights thinking why did I bother. One of the suit trousers gave up after a mere 2 years and not a lot of using. I took it back and the salesman said it was because the fabric did not have enough stretch tension and that these things will happen. Nothing can be done, suit ruined. Fair enough, that is life, other suits have been fine so far (average 2 years, but the first ones I had made in 2010 have been going strong). The shirts I barely use, since they fit me worse than RTW TM Lewin’s Fully Fitted. But I saw a gentleman being fitted for shirts the last time I was there and it looked great. So I ascribe that to my inexperience in getting what I exactly wanted.
So I was confident enough on them to return for more suits and SCs. So roll the tape to late February 2014, early after Chinese New Year.
I come to buy new suits and get very good service from Charles. I select 2 new 3-piece DB vest suits, and a SC. We go through everything, from no button-hole to all details regarding pockets, lapels etc. I let him sell me on a one-pleat trouser for one of the suits (which I later regretted, but it is my fault). However, I ask for special lining and he says he can’t do it, but does not explain that they actually can order it from HK, as long as I am willing to pay. I was, but the suits I chose, the 3-pieces who would benefit from special linings, go with colorful but solid lines instead. Everything is fine and dandy otherwise.
I come back two days later to pay the deposit (I had no cash on me at the time), and Charles informed me I was very lucky, because HK has shot the prices up over 20% on most stuff. So new prices are roughly 9.000-10.000RMB for 2-piece suits and 12.000RMB for 3-piece suits, for VBC fabrics. For Scabal and Zegna, a bit more, I have seen some 3-pieces for 14-15.000. Because the fabric on store is not subject to the raise, I select another suit (Zegna Traveller fabric, supposedly resistant and crease-free, will test on the flight back to South America) and another SC. But that got me thinking I should try something else, and that is how I arrived at Eleganza Uomo, but more about it on later.
I come back for fitting after 2 weeks and we go through a lot of things, from trouser length and the advantages and disadvantages of trying to get it to just touch the shoes etc etc. Second fitting a week later. I had an appointment made and was pressed for time. Charles was with a walk-in client, who wanted more information and apparently was a new client. He realized he was not going to be able to do my fitting and take care of the walk-in, told the guy I had an appointment, tried to juggle both of us for a while but the guy eventually left. I appreciate the good service, as I may have cost him a client. I noticed a gapping in the jacket, we go through the asymmetrical length of sleeves due to the way my arms and shoulder work, etc. At least one hour to go through everything. Excellent service. On the same day I bite the bullet and go to Eleganza Uomo, since I figured I want an alternative to the now higher-priced Chan.
I come into EU in a busy Saturday afternoon. The salesman, Alan, speaks good English and we quickly settle on a DB suit with the same mid-blue fabric I chose at Chan – two reasons: I want to know if the quality of the fabric is the same and it gives me the benefit, if it is, of having two trousers in the color I really liked. Price, without haggling (Chan has no haggling policy, EU seems like you can haggle a bit), 5000 RMB. Being used to Chan, I say yes, even though I realize later I could maybe get a 10% off. In any case, half the price of Chan, so I am quite content, and he let me choose a patterned lining without charging extra. So, great. Service, however, was the quickest one I ever experience. He took the details, did not care very much about going through everything, and the tailor who measured me was efficient, spoke English, and also quick. His argument was that all details could be done in the first fitting. It really helped I knew exactly what I wanted, so I gave him the instructions (high-arm holes, slanted pockets, ticket pocket, pick stitching etc etc etc).
One week later I go to pick up my suits at Chan (over-saturated photo below), and do my first fitting at EU. Some problems, but again, because I knew what I wanted, not a problem. Trousers with too much excess material, jacket length too big etc. It took me less than 10 minutes though, to go through all of that! And on a quiet Saturday morning. But the fabric is the same (I compared it on store, and from what Alan told me, the same source in HK as Chan). So plan to get two trousers works and I actually order another vest for the Chan 3-piece (different patterned lining), so I now have two suits (DB and non-DB, and two different vests on the same wonderful mid-blue solid that I loved – see below).
Will pick up the suit in two weeks and will post the results from EU.
Here are my conclusions. WW Chan is still a great place to make a suit for less than it would cost in Saville Row or anyplace else. Not cheap, though. Quality is great. It helps if you really know what you want, but you can certainly discuss options with Charles. Press him on issues that matter, though, like lining, on cuffs on sleeves. As in most places, he will try to do what is more comfortable for him. I accept that (being a PhD in Economics helps understand skewed incentives), and recommend Chan, even if their batting average is not 100%.
EU is a different place. I think they are capable of really good stuff, maybe on par with Chan (they claim to be), but if you don’t know what you are doing you will get a loosely-fit baggy suit, with no signs of customization. I will reserve further judgment until I get the finished product, second fitting is today, and I pick it up later March, 2014. P.S.: Alan did not understand when I asked for pick-stitching, but got it immediately when he saw the finished product from Chan. Otherwise, excellent communication. Again, not cheap, but much more reasonable than Chan nowadays. Let’s see.
Here are the pics.
New Suits and SC from WW Chan
Picking up one the suits.
New suit, shirt and tie.
I have been a client of WW Chan for a few years now. They have not provided perfect execution every time but till last week they were the only bespoke tailors I have tried. It has been a pleasant experience overall (as you will see by the fact I had a recent batch of things made in March 2014), but there were a few issues. Here is the rundown.
Batting average: till the recent batch I have had 7 suits, 3 shirts, and 4 sport coats made at WW Chan. Of these, one time I had a horrendous result on 2 SC. There was some back and forth and I got a full refund in the end (including the import duties, since they were shipped overseas). No complaints there other than some pissed off nights thinking why did I bother. One of the suit trousers gave up after a mere 2 years and not a lot of using. I took it back and the salesman said it was because the fabric did not have enough stretch tension and that these things will happen. Nothing can be done, suit ruined. Fair enough, that is life, other suits have been fine so far (average 2 years, but the first ones I had made in 2010 have been going strong). The shirts I barely use, since they fit me worse than RTW TM Lewin’s Fully Fitted. But I saw a gentleman being fitted for shirts the last time I was there and it looked great. So I ascribe that to my inexperience in getting what I exactly wanted.
So I was confident enough on them to return for more suits and SCs. So roll the tape to late February 2014, early after Chinese New Year.
I come to buy new suits and get very good service from Charles. I select 2 new 3-piece DB vest suits, and a SC. We go through everything, from no button-hole to all details regarding pockets, lapels etc. I let him sell me on a one-pleat trouser for one of the suits (which I later regretted, but it is my fault). However, I ask for special lining and he says he can’t do it, but does not explain that they actually can order it from HK, as long as I am willing to pay. I was, but the suits I chose, the 3-pieces who would benefit from special linings, go with colorful but solid lines instead. Everything is fine and dandy otherwise.
I come back two days later to pay the deposit (I had no cash on me at the time), and Charles informed me I was very lucky, because HK has shot the prices up over 20% on most stuff. So new prices are roughly 9.000-10.000RMB for 2-piece suits and 12.000RMB for 3-piece suits, for VBC fabrics. For Scabal and Zegna, a bit more, I have seen some 3-pieces for 14-15.000. Because the fabric on store is not subject to the raise, I select another suit (Zegna Traveller fabric, supposedly resistant and crease-free, will test on the flight back to South America) and another SC. But that got me thinking I should try something else, and that is how I arrived at Eleganza Uomo, but more about it on later.
I come back for fitting after 2 weeks and we go through a lot of things, from trouser length and the advantages and disadvantages of trying to get it to just touch the shoes etc etc. Second fitting a week later. I had an appointment made and was pressed for time. Charles was with a walk-in client, who wanted more information and apparently was a new client. He realized he was not going to be able to do my fitting and take care of the walk-in, told the guy I had an appointment, tried to juggle both of us for a while but the guy eventually left. I appreciate the good service, as I may have cost him a client. I noticed a gapping in the jacket, we go through the asymmetrical length of sleeves due to the way my arms and shoulder work, etc. At least one hour to go through everything. Excellent service. On the same day I bite the bullet and go to Eleganza Uomo, since I figured I want an alternative to the now higher-priced Chan.
I come into EU in a busy Saturday afternoon. The salesman, Alan, speaks good English and we quickly settle on a DB suit with the same mid-blue fabric I chose at Chan – two reasons: I want to know if the quality of the fabric is the same and it gives me the benefit, if it is, of having two trousers in the color I really liked. Price, without haggling (Chan has no haggling policy, EU seems like you can haggle a bit), 5000 RMB. Being used to Chan, I say yes, even though I realize later I could maybe get a 10% off. In any case, half the price of Chan, so I am quite content, and he let me choose a patterned lining without charging extra. So, great. Service, however, was the quickest one I ever experience. He took the details, did not care very much about going through everything, and the tailor who measured me was efficient, spoke English, and also quick. His argument was that all details could be done in the first fitting. It really helped I knew exactly what I wanted, so I gave him the instructions (high-arm holes, slanted pockets, ticket pocket, pick stitching etc etc etc).
One week later I go to pick up my suits at Chan (over-saturated photo below), and do my first fitting at EU. Some problems, but again, because I knew what I wanted, not a problem. Trousers with too much excess material, jacket length too big etc. It took me less than 10 minutes though, to go through all of that! And on a quiet Saturday morning. But the fabric is the same (I compared it on store, and from what Alan told me, the same source in HK as Chan). So plan to get two trousers works and I actually order another vest for the Chan 3-piece (different patterned lining), so I now have two suits (DB and non-DB, and two different vests on the same wonderful mid-blue solid that I loved – see below).
Will pick up the suit in two weeks and will post the results from EU.
Here are my conclusions. WW Chan is still a great place to make a suit for less than it would cost in Saville Row or anyplace else. Not cheap, though. Quality is great. It helps if you really know what you want, but you can certainly discuss options with Charles. Press him on issues that matter, though, like lining, on cuffs on sleeves. As in most places, he will try to do what is more comfortable for him. I accept that (being a PhD in Economics helps understand skewed incentives), and recommend Chan, even if their batting average is not 100%.
EU is a different place. I think they are capable of really good stuff, maybe on par with Chan (they claim to be), but if you don’t know what you are doing you will get a loosely-fit baggy suit, with no signs of customization. I will reserve further judgment until I get the finished product, second fitting is today, and I pick it up later March, 2014. P.S.: Alan did not understand when I asked for pick-stitching, but got it immediately when he saw the finished product from Chan. Otherwise, excellent communication. Again, not cheap, but much more reasonable than Chan nowadays. Let’s see.
Here are the pics.
New Suits and SC from WW Chan
Picking up one the suits.
New suit, shirt and tie.
