Would you pay $600 for this watch?

[whacked]

Originally Posted by dkzzzz

I know very little about watches, but I highly doubt that you can get Tourbillion mechanism for 600.00 and it is not a gimmicky Tourbi-looking thingy, but a real working compensator just like in Breguet.....

I don't feel good about quoting myself, but whatever...

Originally Posted by whacked

^^
This should explain your concern better than I ever could

Actually, the tourbillion isn't a complication at all, since it doesn't add anything to the time keeping qualities of a watch. A complication means that you have a date function, a day function, moon phase, other kinds of calendars (central hand with a pointer to the dates listed on the rim), UTC functions, etc etc etc. All complications are frosting on the cake, as it were.

The tourbillion basically is the most complex addition to the basic watch that you can make: it improves the core time-keeping behavior significantly, basically removing the effect of gravity on the watch by moving the balance around while it is beating. Ideally it rotates once a minute on one axis, once an hour on a second axis and once in 12 hours on a third axis, with the axis in question determined by the design of the watch, which can determine if the x, y or z axis shows the greatest deviation from the average (this is the axis which is then assigned the fastest turning).

Now, as you can imagine, this sort of thing is fiendishly devilish not only to design and actually get to work, but is a monstrously complex thing to build. One watchmaker I know built a 100x model of his own tourbillion design as an exercise to get his master watchmaking certification in Germany; he almost had a nervous breakdown doing so, the damn thing was so complex.

Now this explains why they are so damned expensive to make: first of all, you have to make a cage within which the balance wheel will move, and this needs to weigh virtually nothing in order to itself not exert any meaningul impact on the time keeping ability of the watch. This means that you cannot automate the manufacturing (yet!), but rather it's done with highly skilled manual labor.

And that is where China comes into play, since that is what the Chinese watch industry is developing: highly skilled manual labor that costs, in comparison to a master Swiss watch maker, virtually nothing (but still more often than not a good living wage in China!); other than that, a tourbillion is a tourbillion is a tourbillion

Absolutely right. Swiss tourbillons go for tens of thousands of dollars, and the popular mythology is that they can't be done cheaper. The Chinese are challenging this, but the Swiss answer to that challenge is unlikely to be cheaper Swiss tourbillons.

The really significant Swiss tourbillons (e.g. bi-axial, twin escapement, remontoire etc) will continue to be made as an expression of extreme horological skill and innovation; but the plainer single-axis tourbillons, that serve as the flagship of a wide range of Swiss companies, are definitely under threat.

Some Swiss companies have even started buying Chinese tourbillons for finishing in Switzerland, which means that some 'Swiss made' tourbillons in future may be nothing of a sort. You know how it works; replace the mainspring and hairspring with generic Swiss items, and maybe swap the tourbillon flying bridge for a custom piece for that 'in-house' look (a common upgrade already on the Chinese models) and at the current exchange rate 'voila!' you've got a 51+% (by value) Swiss parts, finished in Switzerland, 'Swiss movement'.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthr...ace+mainspring
http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...5&postcount=34

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by RunningBeagle

A watch with all the things I want in a serious first string watch cannot be bought for less than $2000 because others are willing to pay that much if not more for the same features. In that way, price and "watch itself" are connected. In a watch with a tourbillon I also expect certain things that typically push the price into the tens of thousands of dollars unless I'm just getting it because it's a cool piece of machinery (in which case I'd only be willing to pay a few hundred).

For under $2000 (street price) I can buy one hell of a serious watch. Think Grand Seiko, Omega(modern or vintage), vintage IWC, GP etc.

At the end of the day, it's your money. So yeah, whatever...

 

[CunningSmeagol]

Originally Posted by whacked

For under $2000 (street price) I can buy one hell of a serious watch. Think Grand Seiko, Omega(modern or vintage), vintage IWC, GP etc.

At the end of the day, it's your money. So yeah, whatever...

Yea, I've looked extensively at the vintage market, and you're right. For me, however, what ends up happening is I see a nice watch at $1500, start thinking well if I move up to $1800 I get this... up to $2100 I get this, until restraint eventually kicks in. It's a personal sweet-spot, and I have a hard time spending less than that because there are always more sellers at marginally higher prices.

 

[LabelKing]

For an inexpensive watch, I like these East German Glashutte watches:

 

[acidboy]

Originally Posted by LabelKing

For an inexpensive watch, I like these East German Glashutte watches:

Wow.