Workout plan to build athleticism?

[Scrumhalf]

Ease into the plyo especially if you are older and haven't done this kind of stuff before. Great way to blow out a joint if you are not careful.

 

[Charley]

Originally Posted by why

Military workouts are generally pretty simple -- push-ups, chin-ups, and running. All are done with lots of volume (long runs, lots of reps).

I wouldn't call t athleticism, either. The military uses these workouts because they're cheap and easy to do in a group setting; they'll make a citizen into a soldier, not an athlete.

Are workouts which use expensive equipment better? I didn't know that that was one of the criteria for evaluation.

There are lots of pretty useful workouts detailed here which use little more than bodyweight.
Bodyweight Culture the message board has lots of routines that could be useful.

From what I have seen, most of the workouts that are used for gymnastics various forms of bodyweight exercises. They seem to do a pretty good job of developing fitness without using a lot of equipment. Spend some time working on the planche pogressions.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by Charley

Are workouts which use expensive equipment better? I didn't know that that was one of the criteria for evaluation.

There are lots of pretty useful workouts detailed here which use little more than bodyweight.
Bodyweight Culture the message board has lots of routines that could be useful.

From what I have seen, most of the workouts that are used for gymnastics various forms of bodyweight exercises. They seem to do a pretty good job of developing fitness without using a lot of equipment. Spend some time working on the planche pogressions.

I don't think Why said that expensive equipment was necessarily better. He just said that military workouts were generally simple and that one of the reasons is that it's cheap and easy to teach/learn. As a former member of the military (1st Ranger Bn. 1982-1985), I would agree with him. We generally did: push-ups, sit-ups, pretty useless calisthenics, and long, slow runs. Not the path to elite fitness and it's the reason most special ops units workout on their own once they're released for the day. The planche progressions you speak of, in addition to ring work and even some of the stuff at www.rosstraining.com, would be an outstanding way to build soldiers fitness, but the military hasn't adopted that type of training. Bodyweight exercise can be great, but doing 25 push-ups, 25 sit-ups and going for a 3 mile run isn't going to produce elite fitness.

 

[Milhouse]

I certainly won't claim to be the fountain of knowledge for the requirements for a Marine, but I am a climber, and soldiers and climbers both use their feet as the primary mode of transportation, and generally are packing huge amounts of equipment.

Here is a big portion of how I train:

Ruck marches, 40 to 50 lbs in a pack, 15 minute miles on trails or roads. A little slower is ok (say 18 minute miles) if moving cross country while practicing land navigation. If he has the time, I'd suggest 2 marches during the week of low distance (say 8 miles or 2 hours a piece), and then one march on the weekend of mid distance (say 15 to 20 miles). As a soldier carries a weapon, I'd suggest he carry something of similar size and weight during the march as well.

Running on the other days. Some days run fast, others run slow for distance. Doing sets of sprints and do stairs on occasion to keep it interesting. I don't mind running or rucking in bad weather, but a tough session on the stairclimber in the gym can be a good substitute if he doesn't want to be outside for some reason.

Care of the feet, shins, and knees is absolutely critical though, this is a lot of abuse, so if he hasn't been keeping up with his running and such, work into this slowly to prevent stress fractures or other problems. Good shoes, and good boots that are well broken in and cared for are essential, as are good fresh socks. I keep two pairs of boots for my training and rotate them to reduce the wear and allow them time to dry between sessions.

Then, in the gym a few times a week, one hour per session tops:

Squats: heavy 5 by 5 for back squats. progress as much as possible. Change to front squats here and there and do 10 sets of 3 reps (your shoulders and other muscles will fatigue faster on front squats, so fewer reps per sets are necessary). Again, go heavy.

Olympic lifts: power cleans, clean and jerks, snatches, power snatches, etc. Pick one, (power clean is generally easiest to learn) and do heavy singles or heavy doubles. . . working up in weight, then dropping a lot of weight and doing a few more sets. E.g. work up to a 100 kilo power clean, and then drop 20 or 30 kilos. That way, you maintain your explosiveness as you build your power.

Pullups and chinups, weighted and unweighted are awesome. Set up a pullup bar somewhere and just do a few whenever you pass the bar.

As a climber, I also do a lot of finger curls and wrist roller stuff to improve my grip. He may want to do that too if he expects lots of hand to hand combat (I learned the grip exercises from my wrestling friends).

Pushups and bench presses, as a climber, are used simple to maintain muscle balance and prevent injury. For someone in combat, they are used to provide force to strike someone, so probably heavy benches would be a good idea.

Deadlifts once a week to strengthen the core for all the rucking, although, the olympic lifts also work the back substantially, so this may not be necessary.

 

[Charley]

Originally Posted by Grayland

<snip>
Bodyweight exercise can be great, but doing 25 push-ups, 25 sit-ups and going for a 3 mile run isn't going to produce elite fitness.

Why would you limit the bodyweight exercises to just that?

Your list would be better than doing one set of 5 curls with a chrome plated 10 pound dumbell.

So what?

Try doing one leg squats with a hop up on to a 12" box. That is only using body weight.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by Charley

Why would you limit the bodyweight exercises to just that?

It's a military workout.

 

[Scrumhalf]

Originally Posted by Grayland

I don't think Why said that expensive equipment was necessarily better. He just said that military workouts were generally simple and that one of the reasons is that it's cheap and easy to teach/learn. As a former member of the military (1st Ranger Bn. 1982-1985), I would agree with him. We generally did: push-ups, sit-ups, pretty useless calisthenics, and long, slow runs. Not the path to elite fitness and it's the reason most special ops units workout on their own once they're released for the day. The planche progressions you speak of, in addition to ring work and even some of the stuff at www.rosstraining.com, would be an outstanding way to build soldiers fitness, but the military hasn't adopted that type of training. Bodyweight exercise can be great, but doing 25 push-ups, 25 sit-ups and going for a 3 mile run isn't going to produce elite fitness.
A Ranger! Well, you were one of the elite soldiers in our army! What kinds of things did you do in particular above and beyond what was standard?

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by Charley

Why would you limit the bodyweight exercises to just that?

I didn't. The leaders of the military (specifically the leaders of the 1/75 Ranger Bn-Airborne) chose the exercises. I agree with you that there are much superior bodyweight exercises out there, but the military hasn't implemented them yet.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by Milhouse

I certainly won't claim to be the fountain of knowledge for the requirements for a Marine, but I am a climber, and soldiers and climbers both use their feet as the primary mode of transportation, and generally are packing huge amounts of equipment.

Here is a big portion of how I train:

Ruck marches, 40 to 50 lbs in a pack, 15 minute miles on trails or roads. A little slower is ok (say 18 minute miles) if moving cross country while practicing land navigation. If he has the time, I'd suggest 2 marches during the week of low distance (say 8 miles or 2 hours a piece), and then one march on the weekend of mid distance (say 15 to 20 miles). As a soldier carries a weapon, I'd suggest he carry something of similar size and weight during the march as well.

Running on the other days. Some days run fast, others run slow for distance. Doing sets of sprints and do stairs on occasion to keep it interesting. I don't mind running or rucking in bad weather, but a tough session on the stairclimber in the gym can be a good substitute if he doesn't want to be outside for some reason.

Care of the feet, shins, and knees is absolutely critical though, this is a lot of abuse, so if he hasn't been keeping up with his running and such, work into this slowly to prevent stress fractures or other problems. Good shoes, and good boots that are well broken in and cared for are essential, as are good fresh socks. I keep two pairs of boots for my training and rotate them to reduce the wear and allow them time to dry between sessions.

Then, in the gym a few times a week, one hour per session tops:

Squats: heavy 5 by 5 for back squats. progress as much as possible. Change to front squats here and there and do 10 sets of 3 reps (your shoulders and other muscles will fatigue faster on front squats, so fewer reps per sets are necessary). Again, go heavy.

Olympic lifts: power cleans, clean and jerks, snatches, power snatches, etc. Pick one, (power clean is generally easiest to learn) and do heavy singles or heavy doubles. . . working up in weight, then dropping a lot of weight and doing a few more sets. E.g. work up to a 100 kilo power clean, and then drop 20 or 30 kilos. That way, you maintain your explosiveness as you build your power.

Pullups and chinups, weighted and unweighted are awesome. Set up a pullup bar somewhere and just do a few whenever you pass the bar.

As a climber, I also do a lot of finger curls and wrist roller stuff to improve my grip. He may want to do that too if he expects lots of hand to hand combat (I learned the grip exercises from my wrestling friends).

Pushups and bench presses, as a climber, are used simple to maintain muscle balance and prevent injury. For someone in combat, they are used to provide force to strike someone, so probably heavy benches would be a good idea.

Deadlifts once a week to strengthen the core for all the rucking, although, the olympic lifts also work the back substantially, so this may not be necessary.

Milhouse,
I like this workout and it would be nearly ideal for building true fitness. It's actually pretty similar to Crossfit except that Crossfit is very random and doesn't include Ruck Marches. Speaking of Ruck Marches; while I did lots of them, it's not something I ever practiced. I found them to be mostly mental. In other words, they could be done by anyone strong enough mentally not to quit. Yea, they sucked physically too, but those I saw fall by the wayside did so because their mind couldn't take it, not because they couldn't handle it physically. The attrition in spec ops units is just weeding out the weak minded.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

A Ranger! Well, you were one of the elite soldiers in our army! What kinds of things did you do in particular above and beyond what was standard?

Well, if I told you that I'd have to kill you.

Worse yet, if my old unit buddies found out I was posting on Styleforum, they'd kill me.

 

[Charley]

Originally Posted by why

It's a military workout.


Evvidently it meets the fitness objectives of the military. That is why they chose it.
Your objection seemed to be about cost of equipment.
What does equipment cost have to do with choosing to do lighter workouts?

 

[Milhouse]

Originally Posted by Grayland

Milhouse,
I like this workout and it would be nearly ideal for building true fitness. It's actually pretty similar to Crossfit except that Crossfit is very random and doesn't include Ruck Marches. Speaking of Ruck Marches; while I did lots of them, it's not something I ever practiced. I found them to be mostly mental. In other words, they could be done by anyone strong enough mentally not to quit. Yea, they sucked physically too, but those I saw fall by the wayside did so because their mind couldn't take it, not because they couldn't handle it physically. The attrition in spec ops units is just weeding out the weak minded.

I agree with you 100% on the mental aspect. There are three main reasons why I like ruck marching.

1) It helps translate all that gym work into the actual "sport" I do. The smaller muscles that don't necessarily get recruited in a big way during a squat, for example, have to work hard to maintain balance on uneven terrain with a heavy pack, etc. Keeps me good and balanced.

2) As a climber, the ruck marches are great shakedowns for building a workflow or system for traveling by foot. I find out exactly where I like to position my water bottles, how I like to wear my pack, if a piece of clothing has a seam that rubs me raw, how often I need to stop and powder my feet, how much water do I consume with that workload at X temperature, etc. It also gives me a chance to hone my land nav skills. I use a compass, altimeter, map, and pace counting beads. I'm about as accurate as a GPS at this point (moreso under heavy canopy where my GPS doesn't work so well). It is a skill that I firmly believe requires a lot of usage otherwise it starts to fade. I also think a lot of folks are skipping those skills due to GPS. Not sure if that is the trend in the military or not, but to me, it seems dangerous.

3) It trains the mental toughness to tolerate the boredom, the aches and pains, the blisters, etc. In climbing, like being a soldier, sometimes we just don't have a choice. It is do or die, and doing can be really painful (emergency descents in bad weather, rescuing another injured climber, etc), but dying is forever. I think it is largely a mental aspect that most folks don't understand. Hardening the mind is as important as hardening the body. I know my gf can't understand it, and thinks I'm "negative" because of a lot of my philosophy on these things. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

When folks ask me how to get in shape, or lose weight or something, I usually tell them to keep a journal of everything they eat for a week, and show it to me, and that I'll tell them the next step when I see the journal. I never see the journal. . .that is how I weed out the folks that are serious, and the folks that just talk. It is all mental.

 

[Scrumhalf]

The post above has more truth in it than just about any post I have read.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by Charley

Why would you limit the bodyweight exercises to just that?

Your list would be better than doing one set of 5 curls with a chrome plated 10 pound dumbell.

So what?

Try doing one leg squats with a hop up on to a 12" box. That is only using body weight.

Jesus Christ, Charley. No one knocked body weight exercises. It's like you're arguing with yourself. I'm a big proponent of: dips, muscle-ups, push-ups and burpees. They are much better ones out there, but these are the ones I do. The squats you mention (along with the planche progression) are difficult, highly productive exercises...and I've yet to see the military adopt those exercises. I agree, the exercises I mentioned (push-ups, sit-ups, running) are better than curling a 10 lb. dumbell, but still are pretty lame for those in need of serious fitness. The military sets it fitness routines for the average soldier. Those in more elite units find other ways to stay fit. Those ways might include weights or might include more difficult variations of body weight exercises.

 

[Scrumhalf]

I have become a big fan of tabata intervals with burpees. Boy I thought I was fit, and these kicked my rear when I tried them first - they are a bit easier now with more practice. I am still working on doing a tabata circuit with burpees and DB thrusters. Can't quite finish the 2nd circuit - need to work on the mental aspect as Grayland indicates -