Wings + Horns F/W 2011

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Dbear, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    CYC has good manufacturing facilities for jersey and fleece cut-and-sew in Canada, but you really can't find good manufacturing facilities for everything, in Canada. This is the reason the sneakers are made in Italy, the sweaters in China, and the jeans in the US (they used to be Japanese made, but Japanese manufacture is super expensive). Of the pieces I got, only the blazer was Made in Canada.
     


  2. BubblyMasquerade

    BubblyMasquerade Senior member

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    you guys need to stop thinking that if its made in china, its automatically not going to last as long as shit made in the US or Canada. Its simply not true.
     


  3. Brinbro

    Brinbro Senior member

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    ^^ Way to not read the discussion.

    And really? They can assemble a sweatshirt made of wool fleece, heavy jersey, loop terry, tiger fleece, etc all in Canada. But no way can they assemble a cashmere blend in Canada? Doesn't make sense. The one thing that should never be made in any place other than Canada by W+H is anything considered a sweatshirt.

    The shoes and jeans make total sense, but c'mon you're blowing smoke up my ass.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011


  4. MIKE_JE

    MIKE_JE Senior member

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    Not really. It's a sweater, not a sweatshirt. I have a cashmere blend from BoO from two seasons ago that was MIC, excellent quality. Now they aren't W+H, but are another brand, that at least in years past (and still quite a bit today) tried to keep production in the USA/Japan/Italy. I think your whole argument is silly. As LA Guy said, it is harder to manufacture certain things in certain places. We're talking about a sweater here, not the CYC sweats. The knit of a sweater is totally different. If they wanted to do a $350 basic sweater I'm sure they would have found a way to make it in Canada or Japan.
     


  5. Snakeyes

    Snakeyes Active Member

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    Thanks guys.
     


  6. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Cut-and-sew and knits are completely different. You really shouldn't opine on things about which you don't anything. I know well respected retailers in NYC who tells me that trying to find a top quality American, not to mention, Canadian, knitwear factory is pretty difficult.

    The handknit, Cowichan style, sweaters are still made in Canada.
     


  7. evilbananas

    evilbananas Senior member

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    Raglan sleeve hoodies. :(

    So ugly.
     


  8. Brinbro

    Brinbro Senior member

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    Well then let me understand? Tell me why it has to be made in China rather than 'you just don't understand.' So, you're telling me they can put together crewneck and v-neck sweatshirts in any kind of fabric in the world other than a cashmere blend in Canada? You're telling me it's easier to make a hand-knit cowichan sweatshirt than piece together a cashmere blend in Canada? I'm actually interested. And the point isn't just that they're making these in China, it's the fact that why even bother if they can't make it in Canada or even Japan where they've got some brand heritage? Most people come away fairly underwhelmed by them, which is why tons of them were still left at sale time last fall (in-store and on B&S), so why dilute the brand image? Especially when they make some great fabrics themselves.

    Are the new waffle cashmere hoodies also made in China? Such a discrepancy in prices... I find that $190 for a cashmere/wool blend from W+H is incredible value, but I wonder at the same time why they're so cheap (having never felt the fabric myself, since I overheat quickly in non-zipped sweatshirts). Hell, their cotton fabrics are almost the same price or more often than not more expensive - makes me wonder. And I'm not one to think that MiChina = terrible quality, I own last fall's vest which is great, but it's a little disappointing to look at the tag.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011


  9. Kinglew619

    Kinglew619 Senior member

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    when will this cowichan cardigan drop?

    [​IMG]

    been waiting for this for awhile
     


  10. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I am usually pretty patient with explanations, but when someone who doesn't know anything about the manufacturing process of either sweatshirts or sweaters tells me that they are similar, so I must be blowing smoke up their ass to tell them otherwise, I'm much less inclined to be patient.

    The Cowichans are knit by hand, and are sourced from local artisans. Note that retailers like FourHorseman can get cowichans done as well, and in very small batches. On the other hand, the machines needed for cut-and-sew are considerably different from those needed for knitwear. Put it this way, have you ever seen a sweatshirt unravel? Look at the hem or cuffs of a sweater, than that of a sweatshirt, and you'll easily be able to see how one is different from another.
     


  11. MIKE_JE

    MIKE_JE Senior member

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    Are you really that dense? They are less expensive because they are made in China. People are paid shit there, which is why anything made there costs less. If that sweater was made in Canada or Japan it would be twice the price. That's the point - they want to make a basic sweater and don't want to charge you over $300 for it. The sweats cost more because they are made in Canada where people have to be paid a more decent living. I've made these conclusions from incredibly obvious deductions.

    I'm also acutely aware that almost all of the world's cashmere comes out of Mongolia in the first place, so they are actually having it made at the source. But that's besides the point. Sure, it might be better constructed in Canada or Japan, but it would also cost double. As LA Guy said, it's a different process, the factories are more readily available there, and it costs less to make a basic sweater.

    End this/
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011


  12. nowiremember

    nowiremember Senior member

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  13. Brinbro

    Brinbro Senior member

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    ^ Wow, indeed. Way to add to the forum.


    Huh? No shit. That's the fucking problem. Of course you spout this shit and then could I please point you to the cashmere hoodie that clocks in at around $500? Was that made in China? If not, then all your arguments unravel, and it isn't, the your point about pricing is well pointless. Not to mention W+H prices have been on the rise, with a jacket coming out at around $1000 and an identical bomber coming out 60% more expensive than the first go-round. If you can't make it well, and true the brand - why the fuck make it? Especially when it's shit from most reviews. And so far I still don't understand how a loop terry is somehow harder to piece together than a cashmere blend, time to google since you two aren't any help.
     


  14. MIKE_JE

    MIKE_JE Senior member

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  15. Brinbro

    Brinbro Senior member

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    Then this stupid discussion is over and my assumptions were correct. While I know that cashmere and wools are more difficult to manufacture due to costs and equipment, it's no excuse for a company to cut corners. Stick to what you do best. They pride themselves in their construction, value, and quality and this sends the wrong message - this isn't different than last year when this discussion first began. Would there really be an issue if these were made in Canada of a nice terry, fleece, or even their wool fleece reworked into something a little softer/thinner? The wool fleeces were made in Canada, why not create a similar fabric with cashmere if necessary? I really loved that stuff.

    And, LA_Guy, I'm sorry if you think I'm making a personal attack - I know you pre-ordered these sweaters this year and I even remember that you bought these last fall. I don't doubt the quality of their design one bit, I love the elbow patching especially, but I just don't 'get it' from the brand's perspective like I didn't last year to a similar degree. Looking at the sweater details though, the knit-work seems pieced together like any W+H sweatshirt, so I'm kind of confused about your assessment of the cuff and hem of this fall's sweater? But, admittedly, I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011


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