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Why Lesser has some hegemony on Savile row ?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by lasbar, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Sorry to be that guy but you ALL have to retrain your brain's.

    buying cut goods are ALWAYS going to be more expensive. When you go through a jobber there will always be an upcharge , that's business.
    A few of the makers you are speaking about in this thread son't even make all of their own fabric. They have other mills do it for them.

    The internet in this case is a bad thing. You want to be wholesalers without the over head and it's just not going to happen.

    Best,
    Mauro
     
  2. Spats

    Spats Senior member

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    The internet in this case is a bad thing. You want to be wholesalers without the over head and it's just not going to happen.

    Best,
    Mauro

    [​IMG] Most sensible thing I've read all day.
     
  3. passingtime

    passingtime Senior member

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    Sorry to be that guy but you ALL have to retrain your brain's.

    buying cut goods are ALWAYS going to be more expensive. When you go through a jobber there will always be an upcharge , that's business.
    A few of the makers you are speaking about in this thread son't even make all of their own fabric. They have other mills do it for them.

    I am not hung up on whether a firm makes their own fabric or not. It is far more important to me that at the end of the day the fabric is what I expect. Lessers are a good example of this; they don't make any fabric but they specify and check the product from the mills they use to ensure that the quality and finish is consistent with their specifications. If I am buying from Lessers I am after a certain look and quality - if they provide that then the details are of no concern to me.

    More people need to realise that.
     
  4. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It's not really true that you can NEVER save on cloth buying for yourself. Maybe it's not common, and it's arguably more trouble than it's worth. But certainly it can be done.
     
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It's not really true that you can NEVER save on cloth buying for yourself. Maybe it's not common, and it's arguably more trouble than it's worth. But certainly it can be done.
    Also, it can make sense if your tailor is overseas and you see a cloth that you like that you don't know if he carries--or if you want to get a piece of cloth you think won't be available much longer and don't want to presently commit the funds necessary for a new jacket or suit order.
     
  6. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    For reasons that I don't care to detail, I find myself being stuck with two suit lengths of corduroy and a jacket length of really swell Scabal two ply tweed.

    Fwock. I hate being in that position.

    I'll probably send the Scabal on to Edwin, but still...I find that keeping fabric is a nuisance.


    - B
     
  7. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    I sometimes feel like people say things for bragging rights only on this forum.

    Why would anyone stock fabric they wouldn't use ( vox this is not geared to you) and you can't possible by enough fabric to save the money you really want to ( manton and mafoofan this is direct to you).
    Buying cut goods and the right jobber found on clearence or whatever might happen but it will NEVER compare to buying piece goods and you can't tell me you are going to use 120 m of the same fabric for yourselves.
    Do you see where I am going with this and from what I understand you two are well respected on this forum so you should give the best information possible because what you say carries a lot of weight to alot of people and in the end you just make people look dumb.
    Not a slam just an observation.
     
  8. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Huh?

    The longest piece of anything I have is 5 m. Everything I have, I bought intending to make some day. I have however sold a grand total of two pieces, each to buyers who really wanted that particular length to make up in the near term. Since I wasn't sure when I would get around to either, I sold.

    I absolutley have saved money this way. There is no question. Maybe not a lot, but enough in certain circumstance to make it worth it. I don't think I have ever paid more than $60 per yard, and most was more like $40 and some was $15.

    Another reason to buy cloth myself is to get stuff that certain tailors can't get. For instance, Solito has limited access to English mills. So give him English cloth that I can get that he can't, or not easily or not as cheaply as I can.

    The other main reason I have bought cloth is that I have seen stuff that is interesting and that seems not to exist elsewhere. So I snap it up.

    There really are sensible reasons why some of us do this. Really.
     
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I sometimes feel like people say things for bragging rights only on this forum.

    Why would anyone stock fabric they wouldn't use ( vox this is not geared to you) and you can't possible by enough fabric to save the money you really want to ( manton and mafoofan this is direct to you).
    Buying cut goods and the right jobber found on clearence or whatever might happen but it will NEVER compare to buying piece goods and you can't tell me you are going to use 120 m of the same fabric for yourselves.
    Do you see where I am going with this and from what I understand you two are well respected on this forum so you should give the best information possible because what you say carries a lot of weight to alot of people and in the end you just make people look dumb.
    Not a slam just an observation.


    Well, I'm confused by what you're getting at. Up until now, just about every piece of cloth I've bought has been a jacket's length from a limited supply. The purpose of buying them was not to save money, but to acquire unique cloth that I personally like.

    On the one occasion I did buy some regular production cloth, some Alsport, I did so at a price low enough such that I'd save money on my next jacket order (about $200US, give or take).
     
  10. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    Another reason to buy cloth myself is to get stuff that certain tailors can't get. For instance, Solito has limited access to English mills. So give him English cloth that I can get that he can't...

    This is how I got stuck with the tweed and corduroy.


    - B
     
  11. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    You are arguing my point. You buy cut piece goods!!! You buy 5 yards at a time which is great because you can make a suit or what ever you want with that amount of cloth. When you buy "CUT" piece goods that's all you will really ever buy.
    Now piece goods are sold by the roll. Depending on the mill 50 to 70 yards/meters a pop. Most mills have a two roll minimum. So for argument sake 120m or yards is a SHIT load of fabric and you don't want to store that in your attic.

    Maybe it's my fault for not knowing the Mens clothing lingo but being in the industry these are the terms we use. I am starting to make bespoke and MTM suits. I work closely with the mills and if I have to ( cringe) I go to big jobbers who own lots of stock and charge some crazy prices.
    I work with a SR tailor and three of americas best suit makers. I am just giving you information that I have acquired.
    Like I said before you guys are well respected names on the forum. Manton $60.00 a yard for some of the fabric you have mentioned is a great deal but I doubt people have the tenacity ( sp)
    to look for great deals like you do.

    does this make sense as a whole??

    vox- and you are hating yourself right now it seems.
     
  12. taxgenius

    taxgenius Senior member

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    You are arguing my point. You buy cut piece goods!!! You buy 5 yards at a time which is great because you can make a suit or what ever you want with that amount of cloth. When you buy "CUT" piece goods that's all you will really ever buy.
    Now piece goods are sold by the roll. Depending on the mill 50 to 70 yards/meters a pop. Most mills have a two roll minimum. So for argument sake 120m or yards is a SHIT load of fabric and you don't want to store that in your attic.

    Maybe it's my fault for not knowing the Mens clothing lingo but being in the industry these are the terms we use. I am starting to make bespoke and MTM suits. I work closely with the mills and if I have to ( cringe) I go to big jobbers who own lots of stock and charge some crazy prices.
    I work with a SR tailor and three of americas best suit makers. I am just giving you information that I have acquired.
    Like I said before you guys are well respected names on the forum. Manton $60.00 a yard for some of the fabric you have mentioned is a great deal but I doubt people have the tenacity ( sp)
    to look for great deals like you do.

    does this make sense as a whole??

    vox- and you are hating yourself right now it seems.


    Why? Wouldn't a stop at Tip Top in NYC pretty much guarantee such a find?
     
  13. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    The purpose of buying them was not to save money, but to acquire unique cloth that I personally like.

    Me, too, but I'm not sure if Mauro is addressing the uniqueness side of the equation. In cases like the LL cloth club, it's not buying from a jobber or remnants, but getting enough people together so that 50 or 60 meters of the cloth that wouldn't otherwise exist will actually be woven.

    --Andre
     
  14. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    ^^ you are right. I am not looking at it like that. I am looking from a wholesale retail business side. I appreciate unique cloth. I spend the majority of my time looking at all types of fabric but in the end if the minimums can't be met you won't get the goods....well you could pay an up charge that would make most grown men cry..lol
     
  15. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    vox- and you are hating yourself right now it seems.

    Well, not everything works out the way that one plans.

    The tweed, at least, will be a beneficiary of the debacle, since it will be made up by a much better tailor than would have otherwise been the case.



    - B
     
  16. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    hey, that's great when life gives you lemons add the vodka!
     
  17. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    hey, that's great when life gives you lemons add the vodka!

    This is why I wear Crate x Farinelli despite the grundleholes.


    - B
     
  18. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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  19. courty

    courty Senior member

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    I am not sure what Mauro's point is. I have quite a bit of cloth that I bought for the same reasons stated by others - I either got a good deal on it, wanted to get some before it sold out, or both. I never bought a length of cloth without the inention of getting it made some day.

    I have only had a few things made up from my own stock of cloth and continue to order clothes made from cloth provided through the tailor. Some of my cloth will definitely be made up in the future but some may not be. As a result, I am holiding some cloth I am glad to have as well as other cloth I wish I had not bought. It appears that I am not unique in this regard.

    If Mauro's point is that it is less hassle to simply buy cloth through the tailor when ordering the finished garmets I agree. On the other hand, for those of us who do not have the means or the space to order clothes in every cloth we like, buying the cloth alone - to be made another day (possibly when the cloth is no longer available) - is simply a reasonable alternative. I am not sure bragging rights comes into the equation at all.
     
  20. Mauro

    Mauro Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    I should have never brought up bragging rights. My point is normally going through your tailor is a wise choice. if you are a collector of cloth by all means buy what you want. However until you start buying fabric in bulk ( 120m +) you will never get the prices you truly are looking for. It's odd to me that people are complaining about the prices when just about everyone here knows basic business.
    Some people were saying that the tailors were upcharging for fabric. I think that's absurd. A bespoke or quality MTM is expensive enough, to add extra for fabric is just silly unless they are buying bulk which should still be under what you would pay if you went through a jobber or retailer.
    Does this make sense??
     

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