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Why is the “next step” after C&J so expensive?

style_geek

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It seems there is a gradual upswing in prices as you move up the scale… ie Meermin for 200, AE 400, Carmina 500, Alden 600, C&J 600-800. After C&J, the next step up seems to be 1100+. Why is there nothing in between?
 

bullethead

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It seems there is a gradual upswing in prices as you move up the scale… ie Meermin for 200, AE 400, Carmina 500, Alden 600, C&J 600-800. After C&J, the next step up seems to be 1100+. Why is there nothing in between?
If you’re paying 600-800 for shoes, its really not an issue to bump to 1100+
 

Jmr928

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It seems there is a gradual upswing in prices as you move up the scale… ie Meermin for 200, AE 400, Carmina 500, Alden 600, C&J 600-800. After C&J, the next step up seems to be 1100+. Why is there nothing in between?
What do you mean nothing in between? If price - Zonkey Boot, Meccariello, JoeWorks, Corno Blu MTO, Passus, Gaziano Girling Classic Range, Stefano Bemer Essenziale are all in that tier just off top of my head. There's a ton in between. But shopping off of price tiers and rankings is a pretty boring way to build a wardrobe.
 

Panama

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Fosters attempted to fill the gap between C&J and John Lobb/Edward Green and didn't succeed.
 

JFWR

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Edward Green and related brands probably rely on continual patronage by a small segment of well dressed men who want a very classically English, elegant shoe. They have a price point that is affordable for that group and comes with a bit of prestige -because- it's so expensive.

In contrast, there's not as much wiggle room in the midway point. Everything is kind of close to Edward Green and then the next step is Berlutti's bullshit.

Frankly, I like Edward Green's shoes and designs and appreciate the EG I have, but there's a sense in which you might as well just go bespoke. You can have bespoke for twice their price, but the quality is finer and more personal.
 

comrade

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You might try Ludwig Reiter around the same price point at C & J
if a shop is accessible.. Extremely well made. Conservative style.
Excellent customer service ( in Europe)

 

JFWR

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You might try Ludwig Reiter around the same price point at C & J
if a shop is accessible.. Extremely well made. Conservative style.
Excellent customer service ( in Europe)

Ludwig definitely makes shoes, but I wouldn't call them especially well made.

Super suspect rubber sole construction and mediocre leather when I tried them on at their Munich store last month.

I'd buy them at the AE sale price, but wouldn't pay them at the C&J price.
 

JustPullHarder

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Edward Green and related brands probably rely on continual patronage by a small segment of well dressed men who want a very classically English, elegant shoe. They have a price point that is affordable for that group and comes with a bit of prestige -because- it's so expensive.

In contrast, there's not as much wiggle room in the midway point. Everything is kind of close to Edward Green and then the next step is Berlutti's bullshit.

Frankly, I like Edward Green's shoes and designs and appreciate the EG I have, but there's a sense in which you might as well just go bespoke. You can have bespoke for twice their price, but the quality is finer and more personal.
It's a lot more than twice the cost. For example, GG charges 3 times for optimum and 4 to 5 for bespoke. You can really compare the lowest bespoke to the highest rtw
 

Jmr928

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It's a lot more than twice the cost. For example, GG charges 3 times for optimum and 4 to 5 for bespoke. You can really compare the lowest bespoke to the highest rtw
It really isn’t as much as you’re making it out to be. There are plenty of really great makers not named G&G or Lobb out there. $3000-4000 is plenty to get some of the best bespoke shoes in the world.
 
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comrade

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Ludwig definitely makes shoes, but I wouldn't call them especially well made.

Super suspect rubber sole construction and mediocre leather when I tried them on at their Munich store last month.

I'd buy them at the AE sale price, but wouldn't pay them at the C&J price.
Hmm. My two pairs are 15 years old and have held up beautifully. The last time was in their
store in London was 2016. But the last that fit had been dropped and didn't buy any.
Otherwise they looked fine. How about Dinkelacker?
 

JFWR

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Hmm. My two pairs are 15 years old and have held up beautifully. The last time was in their
store in London was 2016. But the last that fit had been dropped and didn't buy any.
Otherwise they looked fine. How about Dinkelacker?
Dinkelacker shoes are still very well made, HW shoes, at least on the models I saw that were still made in Vienna. They recently shifted production to Spain. Given they made a big to-do about their Austrian artisans doing the work, I can't help but imagine Shoepassion's buy out has hurt them, and that you don't get the same quality by completely screwing over the Austrian shoemakers.
 

JFWR

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It's a lot more than twice the cost. For example, GG charges 3 times for optimum and 4 to 5 for bespoke. You can really compare the lowest bespoke to the highest rtw

Trickers does Bespoke for 3000 pound sterling, which is between 2 and 3 times the majority of the English EG models (e.g. excluding their bullshit driving mocs and cement loafers).

There are also people out there that make bespoke for less. There's that Polish maker I can't remember the name of off hand - any help anyone?) as well as Winson who @Jmr928 turned me on to. Can't take advantage of the latter's insanely low pricing because I ain't going to Indonesia anytime soon, or probably ever, but he does bespoke for ~800 bucks minus the airfare you have to eat to get to him?

I wouldn't be surprised if I could convince CNES shoe makers to do some bespoke work for me if I were to actually discuss the issue with them and get to Singapore, which again, I am not intending to visit anytime soon. I don't want my hide tanned on the way to getting....tanned hides.
 

florent

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Dinkelacker shoes are still very well made, HW shoes, at least on the models I saw that were still made in Vienna. They recently shifted production to Spain. Given they made a big to-do about their Austrian artisans doing the work, I can't help but imagine Shoepassion's buy out has hurt them, and that you don't get the same quality by completely screwing over the Austrian shoemakers.
Dinkelacker were made in Budapest, not Vienna.
 

Jmr928

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Trickers does Bespoke for 3000 pound sterling, which is between 2 and 3 times the majority of the English EG models (e.g. excluding their bullshit driving mocs and cement loafers).

There are also people out there that make bespoke for less. There's that Polish maker I can't remember the name of off hand - any help anyone?) as well as Winson who @Jmr928 turned me on to. Can't take advantage of the latter's insanely low pricing because I ain't going to Indonesia anytime soon, or probably ever, but he does bespoke for ~800 bucks minus the airfare you have to eat to get to him?

I wouldn't be surprised if I could convince CNES shoe makers to do some bespoke work for me if I were to actually discuss the issue with them and get to Singapore, which again, I am not intending to visit anytime soon. I don't want my hide tanned on the way to getting....tanned hides.
A bunch of really good Japanese and Italian makers are in the 3-4000 range. Some mid-level (or newer makers who are great but undiscovered) Japanese and Italian stuff can be had under 3k. Some great stuff in Latin America can be had under 3k. If you are looking for entry level stuff you can certainly find things under 1500 - particularly in Asia and Eastern Europe.
 

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