Why does a suit jacket /sportcoat need to be canvassed /fused front?

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

nice. btw, how many sportcoats/suits do you possess ????

Several.


- B

 

[sho'nuff]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Several.


- B

obviously . haha

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by clee1982

Vox, that's a lot less waist suppression than your usual stuff. Is it just impossible to do without canvass front, or it's just a personal choice since you wanted a relax look to start with.

I suppose one could suppress the waist further, but that seems at odds to the more casual vibe that I like when I'm wearing an uncanvassed jacket.

Plus, shaping around the waist is more than just waist suppression. A canvassed front will give a bespoke tailor more options to put shape going down from the chest into the waist. In RTW, however, even with fully canvassed fronts, this is not something that you will often see. This, in turn, is a reason why RTW/MTM often looks more cylindrical or barrel-shaped than a nice bespoke number.

Originally Posted by JTA

These are smashing, Borrelli Linosa/Sorento?

Thank you. The first is Attolini for Luciano Barbera, the second is a Borrelli Sorrento, and the third is a Borrelli Linosa.


- B

 

[sho'nuff]

Originally Posted by cminor

if the purpose of canvas is for stiffness, then fused will yield better results than sewn.


right. this is the contradiction in purpose behind canvass that i dont get.

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by cminor

I beg to differ. There are unstructured jackets with shape but without canvas. Your pants have shape but without canvas.

I think what Parker was getting at is that some type of canvas is what gives the structure or shape typically associated with jackets in the first place.

But Vox's pictures demonstrate that you can have a jacket look like a jacket with no canvassing whatsoever, which I was unaware of myself. I thought even these casual summer jackets had some canvas, however thin or light. But if you're as buff as Vox, your chest is the canvas.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by teddieriley

I think what Parker was getting at is that some type of canvas is what gives the structure or shape typically associated with jackets in the first place.

But Vox's pictures demonstrate that you can have a jacket look like a jacket with no canvassing whatsoever, which I was unaware of myself. I thought even these casual summer jackets had some canvas, however thin or light. But if you're as buff as Vox, your chest is the canvas.

The jackets do not have a canvas. On the Borrellis, from the lapels down to the quarters, there is about a four inch strip of thin fusing at the edges. This fusing doesn't shape the chest like a canvas, but it help support the otherwise floppier fabric of which they are made down the line of the buttoning point.


- B

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Here are a couple uncanvassed summer jackets, which I think work for casual application:

Nice. But at the risk of stroking an ego that clearly does not need to be stroked

, you've obviously got the build to pull off the unstructured jacket look. Many people do not. It's been stated previously on this thread, but it needs to be emphasized: unstructured jackets are not for everyone.

People have said that the overweight have an especially tough time in unstructured jackets, and while that's true to an extent, I think the underweight have it even tougher. Many an unstructured jacket will make a skinny man look even more frail and rumpled.

 

[jefferyd]

The canvas or fusing is interfacing used to stabilize the front; interfacing of various sorts is used in many areas of the garment, including the sleeve and coat hems to provide stability and support. Virtually all cut-and-sew garments have interfacing of some sort to stabilize parts of the garment. The choice of fusing, canvas, or other sorts of non-fusible interfacing is made according to the type of garment, cost, and the degree of structure desired. I have never seen a tailored garment which did not have something to stabilize the front- in the case of Vox's garments, there is a small amount of fusible in the place of canvas; the front edges would probably curl and flop around if they did not have it.

 

[voxsartoria]

I am going to borrow liberally here from jefferyd's incomparable blog, Made by Hand - The Great Sartorial Debate.

Here's J's diagram of the main types of canvassing (click the diagram if you want to study his full article):



Now, in the type of uncanvassed jackets that I posted earlier in this thread, there is only cloth (except as I will describe and portray in the next paragraph.) There is no wool canvas. There is no chest piece (your own chest has to do the work.) There are no linings. There is no fusing, except...

...there is a four inch or side wide line of fusing that runs down the lapels and the quarters. So, if you look at the diagram above, if you dropped a somewhat straight line from the top right of the lapel to the bottom of the hem, that is the single layer of light fused interlining inside the Borrellis at the edges of the jacket. There is nothing in the chest, body or shoulders.

J recently made a jacket for himself that is similarly unstructured:

You'll see that there is a double layer of fabric around the lapels and the quarters, but no chest piece or canvas. Inside that foldover on the Borrellis, there is a thin, light interling that is fused (basically, heat glued) against the folded over portion of fabric on the inside of the quarters and lapels.

In J's jacket, he does this part more old school:

He notes, "...I use no haircloth, no chest piece, no shoulder pad, no sleeve head, no wadding of any sort. The front canvas has a soft piece of wool felt to cover any possible scratchiness and to give just a bit of body, but other than that, nothing. Softness and lightness. The whole jacket is cut on the easy side, rather than being fitted, and will look a bit like a soft cardigan."

His finished jacket:

- B

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

Very nice

 

[jefferyd]

Thanks, guys.

That coat very nearly got me banned from Sator's forum

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by jefferyd

Thanks, guys.

That coat very nearly got me banned from Sator's forum

- B

 

[KObalto]

Originally Posted by teddieriley

But if you're as buff as Vox, your chest is the canvas.

And Borrelli is the painter.

Seriously, though, I really like that Attolini.

 

[bigbris1]

Go Voxie with the 5" cuffs!

But seriously, it (canvassing/fusing; chest piece) [in my mind/eye] is {what silicone+ women means to us pervs,] to account for shortcomings of the male form, namely the upper torso. To illustrate, think: shoulder pads. See the jankiness in Vox' "fall application of an uncanvassed jacket" in the inner shoulder/pit area. Vox: thanks for the visuals. I see why peeps worship you here.

 

[jefferyd]

Originally Posted by bigbris1

Go Voxie with the 5" cuffs!

But seriously, it (canvassing/fusing; chest piece) [in my mind/eye] is {what silicone+ women means to us pervs,] to account for shortcomings of the male form, namely the upper torso. To illustrate, think: shoulder pads.

See the jankiness in Vox' "fall application of an uncanvassed jacket" in the inner shoulder/pit area.

Vox: thanks for the visuals. I see why peeps worship you here.

Not really; the structured vs unstructured debate is clouding the issue a bit, and to be clear, Vox's jackets aren't without any sort of interfacing at all; they have some, just minimal amounts. The OP's question, as I understand it, is asking why the jacket needs either canvas or fusible at all or whether it can go without it completely.

The jacket must have either canvas or fusible to stabilize the front edge; Vox's jackets have a bare minimum of fusible along the edge, and he would find, if he opened them up, that it also covers the chest. The "silicone" you refer to would be the extra stuff put into the chest to give some or lots of structure, but that's another issue.

In other words, you would never omit the interfacing from a shirt collar- you might put soft non-fusible or stiff fusible, but something is needed, just as something is needed along the coat front to stabilize it. The chest/ shoulder augmentation is another story altogether.