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Why Bespoke Shirts?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Alexander Kabbaz, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    In France this is called a DANTON collar. Police/army uniforms have this type of collar. And this is rather a collar for women's shirts (chemisier) in fact as worn without any tie. Italian collars are wide spread collar in Paris.
     
  2. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    I do not speak French. Is Danton a French word or the name of a shirt designer who made a collar like this?
     
  3. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  4. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    In France this is called a DANTON collar.
    I do not speak French. Is Danton a French word or the name of a shirt designer who made a collar like this?
    I don't think so. Danton is a politician.
     
  5. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  6. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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  7. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    No, they wore stocks and cravats. Â The Incroyables dressed like English squires.
     
  8. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    Not people....
     
  9. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    Thank you both for the clarification.

    Frankly, I don't know where the "Italian Collar" designation came from either. I have client's patterns going back to the '60's where Italian Collar is used.
     
  10. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    ??
     
  11. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    Manton - there are other translations of 'stocks'.
     
  12. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    check this = http://www.listerouge.fr/order_y....=101053 (Their shirts are shit)
     
  13. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    (ernest @ Feb. 24 2005,23:11) Not people....
    ??
    Not the avearge Joe... Only people from noblility and middle class
     
  14. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Oh. Right. I mean a stiff collar, often made of whale bone. The ancestor of the celluloid, detachable wing collar.
     
  15. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    [​IMG] You're right. It does look similar - but I think I see a button.
     
  16. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Les Incroyables were by definition not from the nobility. They purposely sought to ape English middle and upper-middle class fashions as a reaction against court dress.
     
  17. William Massena

    William Massena Well-Known Member

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    In France this is called a DANTON collar.
    I do not speak French. Is Danton a French word or the name of a shirt designer who made a collar like this?
    Alex, Danton was the first important figure of the French revolution. After the fall of the King, the young French republic decided to  "revolutionize" many of the Old Regime established concept, the time was changed to 100 second increment per minute, calendar had 10 or 11 months of equal days, etc... Obviously fashion of the court was the first to go. These shirts with lace or very elaborate collars were replaced with something very similar to your design. but with a long elaborate neckwear. The most powerful politician of the time Danton was known to wear that shirt with some elaborate white Ascot around his neck. However, he soon got the same fate as Louis XVI, a victim of Terror. When he was sent to the guillotine without his protective neckwear, the simplicity of his shirt somewhat stuck in people's mind. Thus the name of the collar, especially appropriate  to get your head cut. I am sure you can use that as a Marketing tool.  [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    (ernest @ Feb. 24 2005,23:17) Only people from noblility
    Les Incroyables were by definition not from the nobility. Â They purposely sought to ape English middle and upper-middle class fashions as a reaction against court dress.
    Don't forget you are not Danton but just Manton.
     
  19. uriahheep

    uriahheep Senior member

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    Here's an example of what amuses me and makes me like Ernest. I don't think that his statements are out of malice, but he probably "loses in translation" sometimes.
     
  20. linux_pro

    linux_pro Senior member

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    my mom always told me that if I asked politely and said please, than I could have one
    And, linux, your Mom was entirely correct. I would gladly have given you one. But that wasn't enough, was it? You just had to push the envelope and go for the BIG prize ... the four or five. BZZZZZ Buzzer Sounds - Regis looks crestfallen. Well, linux, you lost the grand prize ... but let's see what Vanna has for you. Oh. You win the wonderful new Salad Spinner and ... but wait, there's more. Seriously, guys, thank you both. That was very nice of you. I shall try to find - or take - more photos as soon as the Regency event is over.
    Oh, man.. Foiled by my own greed. Heh heh heh. Well, I had to try something. Ya can't blame a guy for trying, right? Seriously though, that shirt looks very nice. Maybe it's the lighting or something, but it looks... smooth, or silky, not sure how to describe it. It just "flows" really well, and is obviously going to be a great fit on whoever you made it for. To be honest, before this thread I kind of wondered if there could really be much difference at all between a high-end MTM shirt and a bespoke one. Or, even a nice RTW and an MTM. I thought maybe it was just something that only the fanatical would notice. But I have to say that at least from your photos, that shirt appears to be of much higher quality overall (and actually somehow better looking) than any of the shirts in my wardrobe, some of which cost almost as much as your custom shirts (well not quite almost as much, about half as much probably at most). I would be interested in a thread about what type of collars you offer - maybe pictures. Of course, that would probably be too time-consuming. But it would be very interesting reading, especially for those of us with strangely shaped necks, thin faces, etc. I've always been told to wear a straight pointed collar because I am thin. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on what collars work for who, what ties, what type of suits, etc. But I understand that would probably be vastly too time-consuming. Thanks for the great info so far in this thread. (and no thanks for the pic that makes me want to quit my job in search of the perfect shirt)
     

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